This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

An open discussion of aviation safety related issues.

Moderators: FrankM, el, Dmmoore

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 8216
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby 3WE » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:03 pm

Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
J
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:33 pm
Location: South of Canada

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby J » Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:00 pm

The transcript of the cockpit voice recorder is included at the end of the report. Here is the last 35 seconds:

FO Two hundred and fifty, we're about to pass over Page VOR
FO You know where that is?
CPT Yeah
FO All right
CPT About a hundred and eighty degrees to Texarkana
FO About a hundred and fifty two
FO Minimum on route altitude here is forty four hund...
Sound of impact.

User avatar
elaw
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby elaw » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:34 pm

The word "about" when used in relation to navigation of motorized vehicles is often not a good thing.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 8216
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby 3WE » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:32 pm

The transcript of the cockpit voice recorder is included at the end of the report. Here is the last 35 seconds:

FO Two hundred and fifty, we're about to pass over Page VOR
FO You know where that is?
CPT Yeah
FO All right
CPT About a hundred and eighty degrees to Texarkana
FO About a hundred and fifty two
FO Minimum on route altitude here is forty four hund...
Sound of impact.
But, they were VFR, in VMC /blue font.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
elaw
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby elaw » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:51 pm

Well... if you're gonna do VFR into IMC, why not go for broke and do it at night?

https://youtu.be/xqijLWONVbg?t=30

:roll:

Sarcasm aside, it seems cowboy improvisation was a lot more acceptable 50-ish years ago. Though clearly not in this case.
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3689
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby Gabriel » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:08 pm

FO Minimum on route altitude here is forty four hund...
Sound of impact.
It is like fate waited to kill them until they realized of their stupidity of flying at 2000 ft.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3689
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby Gabriel » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:09 pm

The word "about" when used in relation to navigation of motorized vehicles is often not a good thing.
Not really. The problem is that about 180 is not about 150.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 8216
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby 3WE » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:26 pm

If we were Evan, we might argue that the only cause was unhealthy CRM. The FO sounded a bit snippy and unhappy with the procedures and Captain didn’t want to hear it.

3BS is troubled by 2000 ft MSL in the extended Ouachita mountains.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
flyboy2548m
Posts: 4391
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Ormond Beach, FL

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby flyboy2548m » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:47 pm

Why are "we" digging up nearly fifty-year-old crashes? Who gives a phugoid foque?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 8216
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby 3WE » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:08 am

Why are "we" digging up nearly fifty-year-old crashes? Who gives a phugoid foque?
I found this one interesting. Gross deviations from good practices.

Also of note is that the wreckage was largely left in place on this one and is still there.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3689
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby Gabriel » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:45 pm

Also of note is that the wreckage was largely left in place on this one and is still there.
Are you planning to visit it?

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 8216
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: This one does have a good bit of cowboy improvisation…

Postby 3WE » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:57 pm

Also of note is that the wreckage was largely left in place on this one and is still there.
Are you planning to visit it?
Not really, but it is intriguing.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.


Return to “Aviation Safety Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests