A380 troubles, the latest news...

Discussion of aviation issues which are not safety related (airline operations, pilot contracts, aviation industry news, etc.)

Moderators: FrankM, el, Dmmoore

User avatar
J
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:33 pm
Location: South of Canada

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:25 pm

Emirates wants an updated A380.
Tim Clark's argument is the current offerings from Airbus and Boeing won't be able to handle traffic growth and limits in capacity at places such as LHR or Amsterdam / Schiphol. Oh, and he notes passengers like the showers.

Excerpt:

Clark's answer is a new plane as big as the A380, if not bigger, with modern features such as lightweight composite materials and more efficient engines.

"Is it possible to redesign a new A380? Yes. Is it possible to lighten the aircraft? Yes. When they brought this aircraft to market, composites weren't really [widespread]," says Clark.

"Imagine a composite wing and a predominantly composite fuselage. Imagine engines that are giving you a 20 to 25% improvement compared to what you get today.

"So you get a lighter aircraft, far more fuel-efficient, which ticks all the boxes as far as the environmentalists are concerned."
One of the A380's biggest drawbacks are its four engines, which are inefficient to today's standards and fuel prices. A new version would require an entirely new engine technology.

Clark says there are "very interesting studies" going on in this field, but he adds that most of the research over the last 20 years has been focused on narrow-body aircraft.

An "open fan" engine, which appears to be a propeller but is actually a larger, unducted version of the fan found inside every modern jet engine, is one of the most promising new types of engines, and could cut fuel consumption and emissions by as much as 20%.
It will be trialed on an A380 test plane.

However, it's not meant for the aircraft: Brand new planes will need to be designed to fit these engines, and at least in the beginning, they will most likely be single aisle aircraft, similar to the 737 and A320.

"We're trying to get everybody working on the big fans for the bigger aircraft as well," he says.

"If you can get them to do what I think they could do in terms of fuel efficiency and power, then you have the makings of an airplane that would match or beat the economics of the [twin-engine aircraft] that we see today, by quite a long way."

The problem with this plan is that just like the A380 wasn't popular with airlines, a similarly sized successor likely wouldn't be.
"Do I think that airlines will step up and sign up to this project? Doubtful at this stage," says Clark.

"On the one hand I'm very keen to take a good hard look at this, on the other I'm not optimistic that the stakeholders in the ecosystem are up for it.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/emir ... index.html

User avatar
Verbal
Posts: 3576
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Planet Bacterion

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:41 pm

This is all kinds of wrong.
Is it possible to redesign a new A380? Yes.
No. How does one redesign a new airplane?
Imagine a composite wing and a predominantly composite fuselage. Imagine engines that are giving you a 20 to 25% improvement...
He just described the 787. He's late to the party.
An "open fan" engine, which appears to be a propeller but is actually a larger, unducted version of the fan found inside every modern jet engine, is one of the most promising new types of engines....
Except it isn't. Boeing looked at using unducted fan engines in the 80's on the 7J7, which was cancelled before it became a program. There are two knocks against them. They are loud, so they won't meet modern environmental noise standards. And there is nothing to contain a fan blade should it fail. It is free to slice through the cabin and cut your fare-paying passengers into pieces, leading to very poor PR and a great deal of internet hate.
"Do I think that airlines will step up and sign up to this project? Doubtful at this stage," says Clark.
Well he got that part right.

A superjumbo makes sense on long flights between huge airports. You can fill up superjumbos flying LHR-HKG and back all day long and make money hand over fist. The problem is that the superjumbo's superior economics are predicated on two assumptions. (1) That your load factors are at or close to 100%, and (2) that you are using it most of the airplane's range capability.

You can also argue that a superjumbo is a great solution for gate-constrained airports and big hubs. Except? If you want to fly HKG-BHX, you fly the superjumbo HKG-LHR, then take an smaller plane to go LHR-BHX. So you've added a small airplane to gate-constrained LHR. Or you could just fly on a BOEING 787 HKG-BHX nonstop. The seat mile costs are higher, but pax prefer it because you skip the plane change.

Sir Timothy Charles Clark KBE FRAeS should just stop talking.

Regards, Dr. Sigmund von Verbal
"I'm putting an end to this f*ckery." - Rayna Boyanov

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:11 am

An "open fan" engine, which appears to be a propeller but is actually a larger, unducted version of the fan found inside every modern jet engine, is one of the most promising new types of engines....
Except it isn't. Boeing looked at using unducted fan engines in the 80's on the 7J7, which was cancelled before it became a program. There are two knocks against them. They are loud, so they won't meet modern environmental noise standards. And there is nothing to contain a fan blade should it fail. It is free to slice through the cabin and cut your fare-paying passengers into pieces, leading to very poor PR and a great deal of internet hate.
Ok, those are 2 reasons I mentioned a couple of slots above / weeks ago (previous page) for why I think UDF / UHB is not the future.

But I have a real question regarding containment... Why would it be questionable in an "open fan" turbofan but ok in a turboprop (which are basically the same thing)?

User avatar
Verbal
Posts: 3576
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Planet Bacterion

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:17 am

Why would it be questionable in an "open fan" turbofan but ok in a turboprop (which are basically the same thing)?
Yes.
"I'm putting an end to this f*ckery." - Rayna Boyanov

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:30 am

Why would it be questionable in an "open fan" turbofan but ok in a turboprop (which are basically the same thing)?
Yes.
Come on Doc, I said it was a real question. I count on you to provide a real answer.

User avatar
elaw
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby elaw » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:53 am

But I have a real question regarding containment... Why would it be questionable in an "open fan" turbofan but ok in a turboprop (which are basically the same thing)?
Because ticket prices are lower on turboprops so the pax' lives aren't as important? :?
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
Not_Karl
Previously banned for not socially distancing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Bona Nitogena y otra gaso, Argentina

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Not_Karl » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:24 am

Imagine an abundantly delayed cheap composite crackerbox that is an electrical nightmare and has the ugliest tail known to fencepervs...
He just described the 787. He's late to the party.
Fixed.
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
Verbal
Posts: 3576
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Planet Bacterion

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:15 pm

I count on you to provide a real answer.
Fine. This isn't my area of expertise so my comments are purely speculative (viz: parlour talk).

Turbofans have way more blades than turboprops. Right there, the turbofan is more likely to shed a blade, because it has more of them.

When a turbofan has a blade failure, it is due to fatigue cracking developing near the blade root, which is the area that sees the highest stresses. The crack tip might be initiated by an undetected flaw in the material, or from impact damage. The crack grows over time and flight cycles until it reaches a critical length (fracture mechanics), weakening the blade until it fails under normal loading.

I don't know if or why turbofans have more blade failures than turboprops, statistically speaking. Possibly because of their close proximity to each other, turbofan blades see more alternating air pressures, creating a more severe fatigue profile.

Regardless, this isn't a show stopper for UDF engines. Given that they can't contain a failed blade, the engines must be designed with high confidence that the blades will not fail. Which means making them structurally heavier. Which incurs a weight penalty on the airplane. Which is another argument against UDF engines.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Dr. Sigmund von Verbal
"I'm putting an end to this f*ckery." - Rayna Boyanov

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:14 pm

It does. Thank you.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 8141
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:05 pm

Grab air.

Shove back.


052FC734-3EB9-4BD2-95BB-FA6325764C97.jpeg
052FC734-3EB9-4BD2-95BB-FA6325764C97.jpeg (72.65 KiB) Viewed 1629 times
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
elaw
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby elaw » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:12 pm

For completeness it should be noted that most successful airplane designs also have a component that grabs air and shoves it downward (relative to the fuselage).
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 8141
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:51 pm

For completeness it should be noted that most successful airplane designs also have a component that grabs air and shoves it downward (relative to the fuselage).
I’m thinking the airplane of the future has long, narrow straight wings and cruises about 150 kts with numerous turboprop engines…fuel efficiency is everything.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
elaw
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby elaw » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:57 pm

That works for me!

I was too ignorant to appreciate it at the time, but my 2nd airline flight ever was on one of these babies:
Image
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:00 pm

Grab air.

Shove back.
"Did you call me?"

Image

User avatar
Not_Karl
Previously banned for not socially distancing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Bona Nitogena y otra gaso, Argentina

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Not_Karl » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:45 am

Grab air.

Shove back stylishly and beautifully.
Expanded.
"Did you call me?"
Love those propfans, they look awesome.
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:42 am

Da

User avatar
Mr. Snappy
Your Forum Comrade
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Mr. Snappy » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:48 pm

нет
I like Mick Mouse

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 8141
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby 3WE » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:24 pm

"Did you call me?"

[Glorious aero engineeringphoto a la kommrade Snappy]
A C-180
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
J
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:33 pm
Location: South of Canada

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:27 pm

So let's get back to the A380....

The following article says that Malaysia hasn't used these six planes in revenue service since 2020 but continues to conduct periodic short flights and more often ground operations to keep them current. Being owned, not leased, the airline continues to hope for a buyer.

Malaysia Airlines To Retire Airbus A380 Fleet By End 2022, So Why Are They All Still Flying?
Excerpt:

All Malaysia Airlines A380s have been undertaking short flights once every three months.

Malaysia Airlines has made no secret of its desire to be rid of the Airbus A380. But many airlines have reneged on their initial instincts to remove the type from service as travel demand comes surging back. Perhaps there is still hope?

Speaking to Simple Flying, Capt. Izham Ismail, Group Chief Executive Officer of Malaysia Aviation Group, reiterated that there is no plan to bring back the A380. Indeed, by the end of this year, it is hoped all six will leave the fleet.
* * *
Malaysia Airlines doesn’t want just to scrap its A380 fleet. After all, these planes are not leased – they are owned by the airline and are estimated to be worth some $240 million, according to ch-aviation.com. The airline has been attempting to sell the A380s for some time now (more than a year in fact), but has so far been unsuccessful in trying to find a buyer for six second hand superjumbos.

These regular, short flights keep the airplanes current. It prevents the need for costly return-to-service maintenance and ensures any buyer for the jets can take off right away. It won’t be the only maintenance MAB is undertaking – the airline will likely be busily running the engines every week, running major systems and doing all the pre-check flights that would normally be done if a plane was in regular use.
* * *
This so-called ‘active parking’ means the A380s are ready to go, but with no buyer on the horizon for MAB, it does somewhat seem a case of throwing good money after bad. Surely it would be better to simply drain fluids, preserve engines and cover all the inlets until such time as someone shows an interest? . . . .

https://simpleflying.com/malaysia-airli ... ll-flying/

User avatar
Verbal
Posts: 3576
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Planet Bacterion

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:39 pm

Here's how to get your hands on a piece of an Airbus A380

Julia Buckley, CNN • Published 29th September 2022

There's nothing quite like keeping a memento of the one you loved, and if the one in question is the Airbus A380, you're in luck.

The aircraft manufacturer has announced a sale of more than 500 items from one of its dearly departed big birds. The MSN13 was first flown by Emirates in 2008, was retired during the pandemic and scrapped in October 2021.

The pieces -- mostly from the cabin -- have been divided into 380 lots, and will be sold over three days, from 13-15 October. The auction will take place in Toulouse, though online bids are also allowed.

All proceeds will go to the Airbus Foundation and the AIRitage association, who have pledged the auction proceeds to humanitarian and heritage missions by the former and latter respectively.

Looking for something to remember her by? Lots include all the usuals, from seatbelts to lamps, plus windows, rows of seats, a staircase, and even a bar. There are Emirates-specific details too, like the illuminated emergency exit signs in English and Arabic.

For full-on avgeeks there are items such as baby bassinets, flashlights and latches to hold galley trolleys in place.

And if regular airplane fittings are not quite chic enough for you, there's an arty option too. Some of the items, such as engine blades, have been painted by contemporary artists to make them works of art in themselves; others, such as surfboards and skateboards, have no visible link to the plane, but have been created from the A380's raw materials.

Many of the items, like these airframe door stops, include nuggets of behind-the-scenes information.

Estimated prices start at around $80 for an emergency exit sign. Looking for the way? Drop on over to the auction website to see the listings for days one, two and three.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/airb ... index.html
"I'm putting an end to this f*ckery." - Rayna Boyanov

User avatar
J
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:33 pm
Location: South of Canada

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:07 pm


One Final Flight? Malaysia Airlines Airbus A380 Ferried To French Aircraft Storage
(with video of takeoff)

Also in the article is a link to this: China Southern Will Operate Its Last Airbus A380 Flight On Sunday

A Malaysia Airlines Airbus A380 took off from Kuala Lumpur Airport on Monday, operating its first international flight since March 2020. However, the aircraft wasn't full of passengers and cargo. Instead, it was ferried to Tarmac Aerosave's Tarbes facility in southwest France.

Some 13 hours and four minutes after taking to the skies, the aircraft made contact with the ground once more, though this time it had flown over 10,000 kilometers around the world, touching down in Tabes (LDE), France, at 15:15, roughly 90 minutes later than planned.

9M-MNC is a 10.68-year-old Airbus A380, according to fleet data from ch-aviation.com. The aircraft was ordered by Malaysia Airlines almost 19 years ago, on December 11th, 2003. It eventually took its first flight on March 14th, 2012, before being delivered exactly eight months later.

Tarbes–Lourdes–Pyrénées Airport (LDE) is located in the Occitanie region in the southwest of France. It only has scheduled flights from a handful of short-haul carriers (including Ryanair), but is home to a considerable collection of widebody aircraft of many sizes and colors. Tarmac Aerosave has a large base at Tarbes, alongside a sister site in Teruel, Spain. The company is particularly well known for scrapping aircraft when they are no longer wanted, but it also maintains some in storage until they are called upon to operate again.

The site in Tarbes already has a varied collection of Airbus A380s. According to data from ch-aviation.com, 19 aircraft have ended up at Tarbes, of which five are confirmed to have been scrapped. These include examples from Air France, Emirates, Etihad, Hi Fly, Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines, and now also Malaysia Airlines. While 9M-MNC could be stored upon its arrival in France, its outlook certainly looks bleak.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/o ... 56aabe5a4b

User avatar
Verbal
Posts: 3576
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Planet Bacterion

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Verbal » Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:49 pm

Wing-Spar Crack Repairs Delay A380 Return To Service
Aviation Week 12/19/2022
Author: Jens Flottau

Operators of older Airbus A380s are finding that earlier-than-expected and broader proliferation of cracks in some areas of wing spars are making a return to service a significantly longer process, as inspections and repairs can take weeks.

Airbus has sent about 60 engineers to Dubai “to deal with the problem,” Emirates Airline President Tim Clark tells Aviation Week. “Airbus is fixing everything. We have to get the spars reworked in various areas.”

Emirates is by far the largest operator of the aircraft, with 84 flying now, and was the second to take delivery of the type in 2008, following Singapore Airlines. Four of the airline’s aircraft are on the ground awaiting repairs, and one has been flown to Airbus’ Toulouse site for rework as the airline struggles to find sufficient hangar space elsewhere. “This is inhibiting us,” Clark says. Other airlines have not commented officially.

“[Airbus] started seeing cracks appearing, so [the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)] got involved,” Clark says. “As usual, some [aircraft] are worse than others. It is not a safety issue at the moment; we are nowhere near that. But we will have to have a regular inspection program going forward.”

The affected areas are the top and bottom flanges of the outer rear spar (ORS) between Ribs 33 and 49, the outer inner front spar (OIFS) between Ribs 8 and 14 and the outer front spar between Ribs 38 and 49.

EASA and Airbus determined as early as 2019 that aircraft have to be inspected 15 years after the date of the wingbox assembly. But during dismantling of a newer A380 in 2022, “we found a higher number of cracks than we were used to and outside of the areas that we knew,” says Pierre-Henri Brousse, Airbus’ head of the A380 program. “We launched a stress analysis and found that there was no particular issue [that needed to be addressed].”

As of now, Airbus and A380 operators have looked at around 20 aircraft. “On most of the aircraft, we found something,” Brousse says, including on five that had not yet reached the 15-year limit. Because of delays early in the program—the first delivery took place more than two years later than initially expected—there are cases in which wingboxes were produced years before actual entry into service. That means “younger” aircraft can be affected as well if wings were stored for an extended period.

Following these findings, the maintenance limit was pulled forward. EASA published an airworthiness directive (AD) on Aug. 31, expanding on one issued in 2019. In the AD, EASA states: “Occurrences have been reported of finding cracks in the affected areas of the wing ORS on in-service A380 aeroplanes. This condition, if not detected and corrected, could reduce the structural integrity of the wing.”

The 2019 AD, based on Airbus service bulletin A380-57-8263, had initially set the 15-year limit. However, “since that AD was issued, it has been determined that additional areas may be affected by the same unsafe condition, and that all [manufacturer serial numbers] must be inspected,” EASA says. The agency adds that “recent inspection results have indicated the need for ORS inspection from 15 years to 12.5 years,” noting that inspections have to be repeated every three years after the first 12.5 years.

In August, EASA also made clear “that the threshold might be further amended upon completion of the currently ongoing analysis.” Brousse said Dec. 14 that, while younger aircraft have been inspected, so far no findings on aircraft with wingbox completion dates more recent than 12.5 years require a change in the repair and inspection regime at this point.

Airbus confirms that wing inspections take about one week. The nondestructive test inspections can typically be performed by airlines in-house. Brousse says that Airbus has no plans for wing-spar redesigns. Affected parts can be repaired through local stop-holes or reinforcements, or will be replaced. Stop-holes can be introduced in one shift, while the more extensive repairs can take one week per area affected.

The Aviation Week Network Fleet Discovery database indicates that Qantas currently operates the only three aircraft in revenue service older than 12.5 years, though the real time at which the wingboxes were produced is unclear. Registration VH-OQB is Qantas’ fleet leader, at 14.5 years of age. Singapore Airlines was the first carrier to take delivery of an A380, in October 2007, but that aircraft and several more of its early A380s have been scrapped or are stored.

Emirates received its first A380 in July 2008, but that aircraft and several more also have been scrapped. Clark says the airline is pulling younger A380s from storage first to deal with the wing-spar repairs and to limit the effect on capacity.
"I'm putting an end to this f*ckery." - Rayna Boyanov

User avatar
ocelot
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:26 pm
Location: /bin/cat

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby ocelot » Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:35 am


User avatar
J
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:33 pm
Location: South of Canada

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby J » Tue May 30, 2023 3:42 pm

Global Airlines Buys First A380

Global Airlines grabbed the headlines as the week started after the United Kingdom-based carrier announced that it had purchased an A380. That’s right - bought - not leased! While it seems like a significant risk to acquire such a behemoth during this sensitive climate of the air travel market, the startup is confident about soaring high with the aircraft.

* * *
“Acquiring our aircraft rather than leasing showcases our commitment to financial security and resilience from day one.. Acquiring our aircraft rather than leasing showcases our commitment to financial security and resilience from day one.”
https://simpleflying.com/global-airlin ... rbus-a380/

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: A380 troubles, the latest news...

Postby Gabriel » Tue May 30, 2023 11:13 pm

“Acquiring our aircraft rather than leasing showcases our commitment to financial security and resilience from day one.. Acquiring our aircraft rather than leasing showcases our commitment to financial security and resilience from day one.”
Interesting.. Interesting.


Return to “Aviation Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests