Anti-airline rant

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Gabriel
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Anti-airline rant

Postby Gabriel » Fri May 21, 2021 8:32 am

This rant happens to be against United, but I am sure it could be the same with any other airline.

We have 5 tickets to go to Buenos Aires (ELP-IAH-EZE / EZE-IAH-ELP)
The outbound leg was originally scheduled for June 30. In addition to the original tickets, we then paid an upgrade to Premium Economy. First time that I do that, since I feel quite bad having to pay more to get the same level of comfort that a not-so-tall person receives paying less, but there was a good promo where if I upgraded for all 5 it was $65 per long flight (so it was 10 upgrades total, which amounted for about 20% of the price of the original tickets). Also, and I know I will regret this, my wife and daughter conspired to take our dog in the cabin, which added for another $250 for the whole itinerary.

Yesterday I received 5 automated emails from united refunding $65 5 times. I went to the itinerary to see what was going on and the outbound flights had disappeared. We called United (which is a pain in itself, but I will not go into that here) and the agent explained that the flight we had was cancelled, that we could opt to fly same day ELP-IAH-PTY-EZE (last leg with Copa) or get a similar flights that we had for June 30 but either June 25 or July 1. All with no change in price. We opted to depart on June 29 in a similar itinerary (ELP-IAH-EZE).

When we got the confirmation by email, we realized that we had about 1 hour of stop over in IAH. That should be normally ok, but normally ok was perhaps not comfortable enough here. The time of arrival to IAH is the time of landing, not the time you are actually off the plane, we will likely need to switch terminals, the international flights in big planes normally start boarding 45 minutes before the departure time, and we will be going with a dog that we wished would have the opportunity to relieve between flights. Plus, there is not much margin for a delay which, if it happens, would mean that we would lose the only flight to Bue that day and that and we would need to fly either the next day via PTY or 2 days later direct to Bue, assuming that there are seats available.

No problem, there are earlier flights from ELP to IAH. We checked on line and effectively, there was one 2 hours earlier in United for $150 or something.

So we called Delta again (actually, we chatted via SMS).
- Hi, We would like to leave earlier from ELP to be not so tight in IAH, is that possible? I saw that flight xxx that leaves earlier has seats available.
- Yes, of course. That would be $1400 more per pax.
- WHAT????? We are just changing the flight from ELP to IAH. If we paid for that flight it would be only $150 per pax, not considering any credit for the flight we are declining.
- No sir, that's not how it works. I need to do the whole itinerary again at the current price. And you are lucky that I can use the current price for the fare category you currently have, because if you were just booking the flight that category is not available now and it would be even more expensive.
- Ok, then don't change the flight. Just remove it form the itinerary and I will book the new flight to IAH separately.
- Sure sir, that would be no problem. it would still cost $1200 per pax though.
- What???? Why? Jut take me out of the first flight, don't give me any money back, sell my seats to someone else and let me take the rest of the trip with the tickets I already have.
- Sorry but, as I explained, I cannot do that. I have to re-issue the whole itinerary at current prices.
- Ok, then leave everything as is, I will miss the first flight and meet you in IAH, I will get there somewhere else.
- Oh, you cannot do that, sir. If you don't show up for the first flight it will be considered a no-show and your whole itinerary will be cancelled.
- So, let's imagine a situation where I have an unexpected issue and I am out of town, so I call you a couple of days before to tell you that I will not be able to make the first flight but I still want the rest of the flights.... Would I still miss the whole ticket for not showing up to the first flight even when I am advising you in advance?
- Well, either yes, or....
- Don't tell me, you would have to re-issue the whole itinerary at current prices.
- Correct, you got it!

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

How is that NOT ridiculous? I wonder if it is even legal?

Just to begin with, how can the same ticket, on the same flights, same seats, same service, cost $600 one day and $2100 another? That's 250% more expensive!!!!
Second, the whole situation was triggered by their cancelation of the original flight. Yes, they owned that by offering alternative options for the same price. Unfortunately it was hard to follow over the phone call the details of the flights that they were offering and we missed that we had only 1 hour in IAH. If at that point we had requested the earlier flight we would have had it for the same price.
Finally, that thing of having no choice but cancelling the whole flight and having no choice but to make a whole itinerary is a lame excuse. Of course they have choice, as they did when they changed or flights for the same price.

Imagine that you order a meal at Burger King and they charge you $10. Then you say hey I forgot to tell you, please don't put cheese in the burger and they say no problem sir, now it is $40. You see, while not putting the cheese is cheaper for us, I cannot just remove the cheese from your order, I have to redo the whole order again and make it at current prices that just went up 300%. BK would be out of business overnight.

The concentration of the airlines removed the competency to the point of making it an oligopoly, All the mainstream airlines (all 3 of them) have similar prices, similar crappy service, similar lack of legroom, similar policies, tot he point where the freedom of choosing the airline that you want is just an illusion.

I am all for private companies and deregulation, but in a context of competition, reasonability and ethics, nothing of which is present here.

I wish I could say "I will neve fly United again", but I can't. Because I will need to fly to Arg again every year or so and I will need to fly one of the 3 airlines that align align themselves to abuse their customers in the same ways. We are their hostages. We can't choose not to fly. We can't choose to fly with someone that behaves differently.

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3WE
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby 3WE » Fri May 21, 2021 6:20 pm

Yes.

They want to change something: You accept it.

You want to change something: Thousands.

Maybe TeeVee can help you- but the scary bottom line is that we (no italics) accept this and go for the cheapest fare on the internet. (Remember, changeable fares are available (for Thousands)- therefore, YOU chose this).

You have my sympathy- but be aware neither here nor there is a wide enough public forum to do anything about this, or Boeings culture.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

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Mr. Snappy
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby Mr. Snappy » Fri May 21, 2021 6:48 pm

Aeroflot is superior airline

Is not fly to gulag

Is lovely baboushkas, da?

Image
I like Mick Mouse

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Not_Karl
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Ban ALL airlines!!!

Postby Not_Karl » Fri May 21, 2021 8:05 pm

The concentration of the airlines removed the competency to the point of making it an oligopoly, All the mainstream airlines (all 3 of them) have similar prices, similar crappy service, similar lack of legroom, similar policies, tot he point where the freedom of choosing the airline that you want is just an illusion.
(...)
I wish I could say "I will neve fly United again", but I can't. Because I will need to fly to Arg again every year or so and I will need to fly one of the 3 airlines that align align themselves to abuse their customers in the same ways. We are their hostages. We can't choose not to fly. We can't choose to fly with someone that behaves differently.
Heh, it reminds me of when Apple makes something I do Not_approve, I show my discontent, and an acquaintance says -"what's the problem? If you don't like it, don't buy it"... The problem is that when Apple makes something is just a matter of time until all brands are also doing it :x .
Yes.

They want to change something: You accept it.

You want to change something: Thousands.
Indeed, it's Gabie's fault. The conversation should have been:
Unitedie: -"Well, we FUBARed as is usual for airlinies, we can reluctlantly give you back your money or change your flight to this other date..."
Gabie: -"Ok, no problem. I take the new date. You'll have to pay me $1400 per seat, of course."
Aeroflot is superior airline

Is not fly to gulag

Is lovely baboushkas, da?
The Il-62 sure is a beautiful aeroplanie (but it still should be banned).
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
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3WE
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby 3WE » Sat May 22, 2021 1:44 pm

I’m supposed to have a routine medical test.

I can’t call for an appointment- there is no advertised.

I filled out a web portal.

So they cold called me...it was a robo-call. Press 1 and then you can be placed on hold for the first available CSA...

It so happened I was outside and away from a calendar.

They have never called back.

No phone, no email (or customer portal) nor an online appointment system).

Shouldn’t Joe fix this? (Airline policy, too?)

The BBB?

It really is a creepy way to do business.

The customer is always ripe to be phugoid over.
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby flyboy2548m » Sat May 22, 2021 3:15 pm

This rant happens to be against United, but I am sure it could be the same with any other airline.

We have 5 tickets to go to Buenos Aires (ELP-IAH-EZE / EZE-IAH-ELP)
The outbound leg was originally scheduled for June 30. In addition to the original tickets, we then paid an upgrade to Premium Economy. First time that I do that, since I feel quite bad having to pay more to get the same level of comfort that a not-so-tall person receives paying less, but there was a good promo where if I upgraded for all 5 it was $65 per long flight (so it was 10 upgrades total, which amounted for about 20% of the price of the original tickets). Also, and I know I will regret this, my wife and daughter conspired to take our dog in the cabin, which added for another $250 for the whole itinerary.

Yesterday I received 5 automated emails from united refunding $65 5 times. I went to the itinerary to see what was going on and the outbound flights had disappeared. We called United (which is a pain in itself, but I will not go into that here) and the agent explained that the flight we had was cancelled, that we could opt to fly same day ELP-IAH-PTY-EZE (last leg with Copa) or get a similar flights that we had for June 30 but either June 25 or July 1. All with no change in price. We opted to depart on June 29 in a similar itinerary (ELP-IAH-EZE).

When we got the confirmation by email, we realized that we had about 1 hour of stop over in IAH. That should be normally ok, but normally ok was perhaps not comfortable enough here. The time of arrival to IAH is the time of landing, not the time you are actually off the plane, we will likely need to switch terminals, the international flights in big planes normally start boarding 45 minutes before the departure time, and we will be going with a dog that we wished would have the opportunity to relieve between flights. Plus, there is not much margin for a delay which, if it happens, would mean that we would lose the only flight to Bue that day and that and we would need to fly either the next day via PTY or 2 days later direct to Bue, assuming that there are seats available.

No problem, there are earlier flights from ELP to IAH. We checked on line and effectively, there was one 2 hours earlier in United for $150 or something.

So we called Delta again (actually, we chatted via SMS).
- Hi, We would like to leave earlier from ELP to be not so tight in IAH, is that possible? I saw that flight xxx that leaves earlier has seats available.
- Yes, of course. That would be $1400 more per pax.
- WHAT????? We are just changing the flight from ELP to IAH. If we paid for that flight it would be only $150 per pax, not considering any credit for the flight we are declining.
- No sir, that's not how it works. I need to do the whole itinerary again at the current price. And you are lucky that I can use the current price for the fare category you currently have, because if you were just booking the flight that category is not available now and it would be even more expensive.
- Ok, then don't change the flight. Just remove it form the itinerary and I will book the new flight to IAH separately.
- Sure sir, that would be no problem. it would still cost $1200 per pax though.
- What???? Why? Jut take me out of the first flight, don't give me any money back, sell my seats to someone else and let me take the rest of the trip with the tickets I already have.
- Sorry but, as I explained, I cannot do that. I have to re-issue the whole itinerary at current prices.
- Ok, then leave everything as is, I will miss the first flight and meet you in IAH, I will get there somewhere else.
- Oh, you cannot do that, sir. If you don't show up for the first flight it will be considered a no-show and your whole itinerary will be cancelled.
- So, let's imagine a situation where I have an unexpected issue and I am out of town, so I call you a couple of days before to tell you that I will not be able to make the first flight but I still want the rest of the flights.... Would I still miss the whole ticket for not showing up to the first flight even when I am advising you in advance?
- Well, either yes, or....
- Don't tell me, you would have to re-issue the whole itinerary at current prices.
- Correct, you got it!

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

How is that NOT ridiculous? I wonder if it is even legal?

Just to begin with, how can the same ticket, on the same flights, same seats, same service, cost $600 one day and $2100 another? That's 250% more expensive!!!!
Second, the whole situation was triggered by their cancelation of the original flight. Yes, they owned that by offering alternative options for the same price. Unfortunately it was hard to follow over the phone call the details of the flights that they were offering and we missed that we had only 1 hour in IAH. If at that point we had requested the earlier flight we would have had it for the same price.
Finally, that thing of having no choice but cancelling the whole flight and having no choice but to make a whole itinerary is a lame excuse. Of course they have choice, as they did when they changed or flights for the same price.

Imagine that you order a meal at Burger King and they charge you $10. Then you say hey I forgot to tell you, please don't put cheese in the burger and they say no problem sir, now it is $40. You see, while not putting the cheese is cheaper for us, I cannot just remove the cheese from your order, I have to redo the whole order again and make it at current prices that just went up 300%. BK would be out of business overnight.

The concentration of the airlines removed the competency to the point of making it an oligopoly, All the mainstream airlines (all 3 of them) have similar prices, similar crappy service, similar lack of legroom, similar policies, tot he point where the freedom of choosing the airline that you want is just an illusion.

I am all for private companies and deregulation, but in a context of competition, reasonability and ethics, nothing of which is present here.

I wish I could say "I will neve fly United again", but I can't. Because I will need to fly to Arg again every year or so and I will need to fly one of the 3 airlines that align align themselves to abuse their customers in the same ways. We are their hostages. We can't choose not to fly. We can't choose to fly with someone that behaves differently.
Hi, Evan, how are you?
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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Gabriel
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby Gabriel » Sat May 22, 2021 7:38 pm

Hi, Evan, how are you?
For matters regarding service quality and pricing, I prefer competition over regulation any day.
The problem is that there is NEITHER competition NOR regulation.

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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby 3WE » Sat May 22, 2021 8:32 pm

Hi, Evan, how are you?
***I prefer competition***
I’m thinking flyboy might have an effective argument against this...

There IS competition and several airlines went broke.

There IS competition and fares and availability are a lot better than when 707s ruled the skies.

There IS competition: whatever the service- Travelocity gnomes or concur.com...the price is sorted and the cheapest fare purchased fairly often.

The MBAs analyze the data and THIS works.

Yeah, I channel my inner Evan and want Joe and Kamala and the Supreme Court to fix this, cuz it’s whacked vs old fashioned customer service.

WalMart kills small town grocery and hardware, Ag companies merge and healthcare and hair cuts and Nike shoes...

I will give you that the airline industry had a fairly amazing lock-step copycat behavior...but again...it’s because it works.
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby flyboy2548m » Sat May 22, 2021 9:37 pm


Yeah, I channel my inner Evan and want Joe and Kamala and the Supreme Court to fix this....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
"Lav sinks on 737 Max are too small"

-TeeVee, one of America's finest legal minds.

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3WE
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby 3WE » Sat May 22, 2021 11:38 pm


Yeah, I channel my inner Evan and want Joe and Kamala and the Supreme Court to fix this....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
And don’t forget cable TV, cellular data and Microsoft and Apple and Google and Facebook... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby 3WE » Sun May 23, 2021 8:08 pm

Of note is a few years back, I was going Flyover ==> Birmingham. I strategically chose a flight where three additional later flights were available (for safety). Storms formed, we held, we diverted to MEM took an hour to fuel up, 2 more hours to do paperwork, then a ground hold, then someone wanted off, then a cleaning crew shortage kept the BHM plane at bay until the BHM crew timed out at roughly midnight. I was rebooked- not on the 6:00 AM, nor 8, noon, nor 3:00 PM flight, but the 5:00 PM flight missing a whole day of my meetin’. And not a hint of standby (which probably carried a fee).

Rented a car and arrived at 5:00 AM.

I was proactive and called. Indeed, they were going to cancel my return flights since I missed a leg...a little chewing on everything I had done vs incorrect fuel slips...and to DL’s credit, I flew home as planned and on time. Of course no refund on me having to get ATL to BHM which I had paid them to do...

As Bobby would say- gotta read the COC on the back of the ticket.
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BOYCOTT AIRLNES...FEES AND CUSTOMER SERVICE ARE CRIMINAL!!!!

Postby 3WE » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:13 am

"$1.59 CoVid Surcharge. Bullcrap. I'm calling TeeVee and writing Joe and Kamala!

This takes the cake. I will be driving from now on. Maybe I'll get a medical and do a BFR in a 172...maybe I can pick up a cheap 152?

This MUST Stop!
ABC News
Frontier Airlines making passengers pay 'Covid Recovery' surcharge
MINA KAJI
Tue, June 22, 2021, 5:32 PM
Frontier Airlines is now making passengers pay a "Covid Recovery" surcharge.

The charge is intended to offset costs such as "increased sanitation and cleaning onboard the aircraft and in the airport, shields at the ticket counters and gate areas, and personal protective equipment for employees," according to the airline's site.

MORE: Multiple US airlines ditch change fees on domestic flights, bring back flying standby

The airline said in a statement to ABC News that the $1.59 charge was implemented in May, and is applied to bookings on a per-passenger, per-segment basis.

"The CRC is already added to the promoted total fare at FlyFrontier.com, therefore, it is not an unexpected charge later in the booking process," a spokesperson for Frontier Airlines explained.

Major U.S. airlines, including Frontier, received billions in pandemic relief. Most of them have actually decided to eliminate costs such as change fees to incentivize passengers to take to the skies again.

"Budget airlines have historically been the most adventurous in testing out new fees," Scott Keyes, founder of Scott’s Cheap Flights and author of "Take More Vacations," told ABC News. "And Frontier’s COVID Recovery surcharge is true to form. While this surcharge is unlikely to be replicated by other airlines, the big question is whether yet another fee will push some Frontier customers to book elsewhere.”

In May 2020, Frontier faced criticism from lawmakers for proposing to charge passengers extra to guarantee the middle seat next to them would be empty.

MORE: Frontier rescinds plan to charge passengers extra to guarantee empty middle seat

Democratic lawmakers Sen. Ed Markey, D-Mass., Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., and Rep. Jesús García, D-Ill., sent a letter to Frontier CEO Barry Biffle calling the airline's middle seat guarantee policy "outrageous given the spread of the coronavirus" insisting that "the flying public should not be charged extra to stay healthy on flights." The proposed fee was rescinded.

"We recognize the concerns raised that we are profiting from safety and this was never our intent," Biffle said in a letter to lawmakers at the time. "We simply wanted to provide our customers with an option for more space."

Frontier Airlines making passengers pay 'Covid Recovery' surcharge originally appeared on abcnews.go.com
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Gabriel
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby Gabriel » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:05 am

Guess what? United changed one of the flights again. The IAH-EZE flight will be departing 3 hours later than as sold.
So now I got for free the desired stopover time in IAH for which they wanted to charge me $ 1400 x 5 pax.

Oh the irony....

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3WE
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Re: Anti-airline rant

Postby 3WE » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:04 pm

Guess what? United changed one of the flights again. The IAH-EZE flight will be departing 3 hours later than as sold.
So now I got for free the desired stopover time in IAH for which they wanted to charge me $ 1400 x 5 pax.

Oh the irony....
It is sad as not too many years ago, almost any change was no-problemo, no charge, no nothing. And in your case, pretty dang illogical...but there's also truth that we need to look in the mirror.
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Never-ending airline rant

Postby 3WE » Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:16 pm

A little piling-on from the Wall Street Journal today. (7-7-2021)

I say, "ban all MBA's"...they most likely are the ones bulldozing common sense for profit.


WSJ.JPG
WSJ.JPG (48.67 KiB) Viewed 3752 times
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