Quantas Plane Flying Blind

[The Notorious STG]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=657309

I've never heard of this as an emergency option before. Following another plane.

And what kind of failure what cause this? All the article said was "radar", but that dosen't seem to be too specific.

[Will]

For the operation on Flex tracks over the pacific, it is a requirement to have a working Wx radar operational if CBs have been forecast.

The failure was on the radar pedestal, which affected the 2 units on board.

They had a choice of diverting to Honolulu, but wx was marginal, the only other option was returning to LAX, until they found an ANZ B777 on its way to Auckland.

The captain decided to follow the B777 and divert to Auckland and have its kit repaired there.

The aircraft arrived in Sydney 4 hours late due to the diversion, but nothing more than some clever problem solving by the Qantas crew and assistance by ANZ here...

Can't see what the big deal is!

[Dmmoore]

The "BIG DEAL" is that QANTAS was involved.

[AndyToop]

The "BIG DEAL" is that QANTAS was involved.

More like the big deal is that QANTAS were involved again.

[GerryW]

Were they really so blind like it was written in the article? I think every modern aircraft has GPS installed, so besides of radio-navigation they still can use GPS instead. I understood that the WX radar didn't work, but blind they weren't?

[DeskFlyer]

Were they really so blind like it was written in the article? I think every modern aircraft has GPS installed, so besides of radio-navigation they still can use GPS instead. I understood that the WX radar didn't work, but blind they weren't?

Exaccary. if you have GPS in your car & it suddenly stops working, you're not going to throw your hands up & wail about driving blind are you?
Another non-event.

[reubee]

Were they really so blind like it was written in the article? I think every modern aircraft has GPS installed, so besides of radio-navigation they still can use GPS instead. I understood that the WX radar didn't work, but blind they weren't?

Exaccary. if you have GPS in your car & it suddenly stops working, you're not going to throw your hands up & wail about driving blind are you?
Another non-event.

but if you're driving along a road full of potholes at night and your headlights fail you are going to be in for a bumpy ride. This flight is conducted almost entirely at night (the photos were taken just prior to arrival in AKL), there is bugger all moon at the moment, so without Wx, there was one less tool available to see and dodge any nasty weather including the ICTZ en-route.

Poor choice of words for the captain to announce over the PA that they were diverting to AKL because they were "flying blind"

Intersting aside, just as birds fly in formation when they migrate to conserve energy, if they'd got up close they could've saved some gas as well.

[GerryW]

but if you're driving along a road full of potholes at night and your headlights fail you are going to be in for a bumpy ride. This flight is conducted almost entirely at night (the photos were taken just prior to arrival in AKL), there is bugger all moon at the moment, so without Wx, there was one less tool available to see and dodge any nasty weather including the ICTZ en-route.

Poor choice of words for the captain to announce over the PA that they were diverting to AKL because they were "flying blind"

Intersting aside, just as birds fly in formation when they migrate to conserve energy, if they'd got up close they could've saved some gas as well.

Radionavigation obviously worked, so they weren't blind. And for WX radar not working, there are always other airplanes around to tell what weather is enroute, à la PIREP.

[Gabriel]

I agree that "blind" is not a good choice of a word. But by what Will says, if CBs were forecasted the issue was not what they "could possibly" do but what they were "required" to do.

For the operation on Flex tracks over the pacific, it is a requirement to have a working Wx radar operational if CBs have been forecast.

[GerryW]

I agree that "blind" is not a good choice of a word. But by what Will says, if CBs were forecasted the issue was not what they "could possibly" do but what they were "required" to do.

Were they? I can't remember...

on QF12 from Los Angeles to Sydney were awoken by a glorious sunrise — and a captain's announcement that the flight was being diverted to Auckland.

"The captain woke us up at sunrise and said 'we're on our way to Auckland' and I thought, 'that's weird — I thought I was going to Sydney'," he said.

"He explained they'd been flying blind and he'd found an Air New Zealand jet to guide them in.

so they were flying blind until they found the ANZ to guide them, when sun started to rise...

Wasn't there something else than just the WX-radar not working?

[flyboy2548m]

For the operation on Flex tracks over the pacific, it is a requirement to have a working Wx radar operational if CBs have been forecast.

Whose requirement? CAA's? Qantas'? Boeing's?

[Dmmoore]

During the cold war, flying the North Pacific route North of North PAC One an operational Radar was required for departure. It was used to insure you remained outside Soviet airspace. In the event the radar failed in route, you could continue to destination using other navigational equipment. I don't know of a mandated "requirement" to divert because of radar failure.

[Will]

For the operation on Flex tracks over the pacific, it is a requirement to have a working Wx radar operational if CBs have been forecast.

Whose requirement? CAA's? Qantas'? Boeing's?

It is a CAA requirement for Flex Tracks over the Ocean WHEN CBs are forecast.

[rattler]

Were they really so blind like it was written in the article? I think every modern aircraft has GPS installed, so besides of radio-navigation they still can use GPS instead. I understood that the WX radar didn't work, but blind they weren't?

Dont know, but a friend told me this one about Qantas lately:

One day at a busy airport in Aussieland, the pax on a commercial airliner are waiting for the pilot to show up so the flight can start.

The pilot and copilot eventually appear in the rear of the plane and walk up to the cockpit through the center aisle. Both act strangely: The pilot is using a white cane, bumping into passengers right and left as he stumbles down the aisle. The copilot is using a dog to make his way. Both are wearing sunglasses.

When the plane stars taxiing out the passengers look at each other and start whispering among themselves, and some even look for the flight attendant for reassurance.

Once on the threshold the plane starts accelerating, and the passengers suddenly start panicking. Some are praying, and the further the aircraft proceeds the exlamations start getting a more an more hysterical touch.

When there are less than two hundred feet of rwy left the shouts and prayers turn into screams. But, at what seems to be the very last moment, the plane lifts off and ascends normally.

In the cockpit, the copilot utters a sigh of relief and turns to the pilot: "You know, one of these days the passengers aren't going to scream, and we aren't going to know when to take off!"

Rattler

[GerryW]

You mean this one:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=kuHiannKC5Q

[Giles]

One day at a busy airport in Aussieland, the pax on a commercial airliner are waiting for the pilot to show up so the flight can start.

The pilot and copilot eventually appear in the rear of the plane and walk up to the cockpit through the center aisle. Both act strangely: The pilot is using a white cane, bumping into passengers right and left as he stumbles down the aisle. The copilot is using a dog to make his way. Both are wearing sunglasses.

When the plane stars taxiing out the passengers look at each other and start whispering among themselves, and some even look for the flight attendant for reassurance.

Once on the threshold the plane starts accelerating, and the passengers suddenly start panicking. Some are praying, and the further the aircraft proceeds the exlamations start getting a more an more hysterical touch.

When there are less than two hundred feet of rwy left the shouts and prayers turn into screams. But, at what seems to be the very last moment, the plane lifts off and ascends normally.

In the cockpit, the copilot utters a sigh of relief and turns to the pilot: "You know, one of these days the passengers aren't going to scream, and we aren't going to know when to take off!"

Rattler

and this is what it looked like from the tower. FULL length takeoff with commentary from the tower crew;
"the vodka burner is rolling"
"we have smirnoff"
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=d7q3j69-SHM