Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

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Not_Karl
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Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby Not_Karl » Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:37 pm

An Envoy Embraer ERJ-175 on behalf of American Airlines, registration N264NN performing flight AA-3408 from Montgomery,AL to Dallas Ft. Worth,TX (USA), was preparing for departure at the gate when a baggage handler was killed being ingested into the left hand engine (CF34).
(...)
The family of the baggage handler reported the ground worker involved was a wife and mother of three.
:cry:
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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby 3WE » Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:56 pm

My snarky post title there is inspired by the media’s amazing shortage of facts. About ONLY thing we know is that there were at least moderate PSI to the brakes.

As to which engine, details on the guy…correction gal…were procedures violated, what was the training, experience? Not much floating around (except for gossip)-even at AveHeraldie, DAYS after the event.

Sad deal, I want to think I’d keep aware of running engines, but…
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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby 3WE » Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:00 pm

Apparently we need to install a ring of red strobe lights around the intake ring of engines…heck, let’s get the exhaust cone, too while we’re at it. [/Evan]

PS: Gabiee’s link to a preliminary report lists a few instances of rampies not_adhering to safety procedures.

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/ ... 106517/pdf

Terrible comment: I sometimes see clues that some rampies don’t care about procedures…hell, they sure drop a lot of bags off carts… not a life or death thing, but conversely a fairly high priority.
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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby elaw » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:35 pm

Some discussion of the preliminary NTSB report on the incident: https://youtu.be/Fya2ScTMrFc (I haven't been able to find the report itself) :(
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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby elaw » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:37 pm

Terrible comment: I sometimes see clues that some rampies don’t care about procedures…hell, they sure drop a lot of bags off carts… not a life or death thing, but conversely a fairly high priority.
I suspect much of this derives from management speaking with a forked tongue: safety is the top priority, but if you don't turn the plane around fast enough you may lose your job. :(
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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby 3WE » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:22 pm

(I haven't been able to find the report itself) :(
Try checking threads at good, but obscure, discussion fora where a former 172 operator might have copied a link from a rather goofy, but obscure forum where a former tomahawk operator may have posted it.
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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby Gabriel » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:59 pm

Terrible comment: I sometimes see clues that some rampies don’t care about procedures…hell, they sure drop a lot of bags off carts… not a life or death thing, but conversely a fairly high priority.
I suspect much of this derives from management speaking with a forked tongue: safety is the top priority, but if you don't turn the plane around fast enough you may lose your job. :(
That could very well be the case. I've seen that too many times, where in the formal talks the management gives a direction, but in the informal everyday interactions the feedback they give is different. And many times they are actually honest and don't realize that they are doing that. They think "I already explained to you the importance of these safety procedures, now I just expect you to follow them, now let's talk business". The problem is that then, in they everyday conversation, while they talk thinks like "how much production we need to do today"? "How is our production metric against the goal?" "Where are the parts that we need for the next order" "How are we going to cover Johnny's position in the line since he is absent today?", they never say things like "let me see how you are using your PPE. Did you do your shift-start equipment condition verification? Remember what that safety procedure says?", so the operators unconsciously learn what is important to their boss and how they are being measured, and focus in the things that they perceive are important for their boss. Safety (or quality, etc) may be VERY important for the manager, but if they don't DEMONSTREATE this with their INFORMAL DAILY interactions, the operators don't understand that it is. That is called COMPANY CULTURE and it is an extremely powerful driving force, for the good and for the bad.

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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby 3WE » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:21 pm

Quote=Ericie and Gabiee
[Discussion of company metrics, continuous-improvement-LEAND culture, and greed.]
Bring on the wrath of Evan...3BS common sense cheating (and deviation from black and white procedure).

BUT

Great discussion guys, but still, I think stay the phugoid away from the front of the engines is kind of a broad, basic fundamental thing IN ADDITION TO PROCEDURAL BS of do note the Sierra Zulu Operating Area until the flashing bcn is extngshed and N1 vsualy cnfmd below accptl mx. I think a lot of responsibility HERE lies with the poor rampie.

Yeah, dudes are running all over, hugging the fusilage to open the cargo doors and placing cones at the back...But the unfortunate rampie was walking right down the leading edge of the wing...

Myabe Evanie is right that a ring of flashing strobes on the inlet ring might be in order (of course they will somehow screw up and get sucked into the engine and kill a plane load of poor folks, so maybe not).

Repating, it's one thing to sneak in to the cargo door, another to walk dead in front of a big suction thingie that WILL kill you.
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I hate the media

Postby 3WE » Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:37 pm

This isn’t really what happened…

And bugs me enough that I will double post it.

Dumbasses.


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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:59 pm

Apparently we need to install a ring of red strobe lights around the intake ring of engines…heck, let’s get the exhaust cone, too while we’re at it. [/Evan]
The computerie industry has had illuminated fans for a long time, but I haven't seen any evidence of a decrease of finger FOD occurrences.
Maybe we should install FOD screens to all turbinies...
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Re: Ground worker sucked by engine. Envoy E175 at Montgomery, Alabama

Postby elaw » Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:27 pm

Blancolirio's take on the matter: https://youtu.be/2QGi9RIIF-E

Really the vid isn't much more than him reading the report, but the comments are interesting...
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