The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Discussion of aviation issues which are not safety related (airline operations, pilot contracts, aviation industry news, etc.)

Moderators: el, FrankM, Dmmoore

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 4079
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby Gabriel » Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:12 pm

Next sunday we'll have El Balotaje of Las Elecciones Presidenciales. Both candidates are No Buenos. I predict a country break-up within 18 days.
Not too sure. I think the break-up will happen within 18 hours or 18 months.
A quick humane death or a slow painful torture, depending on which one wins.

By the way, not too different of what's next for the US elections.
Our candidates are the banana flavor of Biden and Trump.
Banana Trump won. You can read my full dissertation here (at your own risk), including the context for this question.
viewtopic.php?t=8613

The question is what will happen now with Aerolíneas Argentinas and its subsidiary Austral Líneas Aéreas?

I see only 3 choices:
a) It will be shut down.
b) It will be privatized (if we can find a buyer).
c) It will be given for free to be owned / managed by their employees (which almost certainly will lead to a), just not as immediate).

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 9085
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby 3WE » Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:54 pm

Alex Trude and I miss Teenie Weenie Airlines.

I also miss Ozark.

https://youtu.be/wCyBOTuUp24?si=4loWWk9ImaZ1TMxJ

https://youtu.be/ItYtYNJmzDU?si=ukI8rWdSjDrlEVCD

You Argies have the sympathy of us Flyoveries.

I should also mention Trans-States i.e. “Waterski”

https://youtu.be/H775VT3YHqs?si=zuNbc-vKBLfLMlz5
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 9085
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby 3WE » Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:32 pm

A better Trans States video, with Flyover Scenery.

https://youtu.be/1olP4XJfJpk?si=8rU0w5htfS_nGKyK
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 4079
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby Gabriel » Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:30 am

Sorry, I cannot open any of those videos under a Belarusian or Bermudian or Belizean or Belgian youtu.be domain.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 9085
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby 3WE » Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:28 am

Sorry, I cannot open any of those videos under a Belarusian or Bermudian or Belizean or Belgian youtu.be domain.
I suggest you talk to Steve and Bill. I thought www.internet.com was supposed to share knowledge ummmmm, world wide. Try TWA AA merger, Ozark airlines 1 minute commercial and Trans States pilot recruiting. I know Tejas is a foreign country, but I thought they had good relations with the US and generally supported Trump.

Anyway, we’re down three hometown airlines in Flyover, and are currently courting WN to move us from a medium hub, to maybe a bigger one…and Lufthansa…
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Not_Karl
Previously banned for not socially distancing
Posts: 4710
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Bona Nitogena y otra gaso, Argentina

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby Not_Karl » Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:14 am

...Belarusian or Bermudian or Belizean or Belgian...
I know Tejas is a foreign country, but I thought they had good relations with the US and generally supported Trump.
But maybe Not_with the Commies, the British Empire and Eurotrash Socialists.
International Ban ALL Aeroplanies Association, founder and president.

"I think, based on the types of aircraft listed, you're pretty much guaranteed a fiery death."
- Contemporary Poet flyboy2548m to a Foffie.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 4079
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby Gabriel » Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:40 pm

[EDIT: I promise I intended this to be not a long post. But I failed miserably. Point 2 was budgeted to be as long as point 1, but as kept researching and finding data that I thought was interesting it went out of control. Where is that picture of the guts of the 737 again?]

On a serious note, Argentina is different than Flyover and Aerolíneas Argentinas is different than any airline in the USA.

Aerolíneas Argentinas runs as a deficit for 2 reasons:
1- It is incompetently run by unions. Not in the papers, but factually. Many top managers are union leaders, and if there is some decision they don't like thy just strike and riot. The AArg employees make more money and have more benefits (paid vacation, paid trips...) than other airlines in the region.
2- Argentina is a big country by land area and by length. Actually, it is in the top-10 of biggest countries in the world. But it runs 33 by population. Few people in a very big area to cover. But it gets worse. 1/3 of the population lives within 50 miles of Buenos Aires. There are only 2 other metropolitan areas with more than 1 million, and 10 metro areas with more than 250,000. Other than that, you have a few high-demand business or touristic places like Calafate, Iguazu, Bariloche, Ushuaia where airline service makes business sense. That leaves about 1/2 of the population far away from places where flying makes business sense. Some of the "economically feasible" destinations are served by other airlines. But Aerolíneas flies to 22 destinations not served by any other airline. That means that it flies to more destinations not served by other airlines than destinations served by other airlines. Eliminating airline service to most of the destinations would cause an immense harm not only to the people, but also to the regional economies and the national economy. The president will need to make a choice between a) keeping the airline in the hands of the state and trying to make it as efficient as possible while still providing this social service at a loss, b) Eliminating all subsidies to Aerolíneas Argentinas which will be a death certificate for the airline, regardless of whether it is handed to the employees, privatized, or outright shut down, or c) establishing a system of bidding for all the destinations that are not economically viable. That would mean that the state still subsidizes a good portion of air travel, but would put the all the airlines on equal grounds, make them compete, and there is a slight chance that a privatized (or employeezed) Aerolíneas Argentinas may survive if the employees and/or new owners get their acto together. However, this solution still implies that the state would still be giving strong subsidies to the aviation industry, just not directly to Aerolíneas Argentinas. So I am not sure if the new president (who made his campaign with the slogan of using a chainsaw to slash the state deficit) is willing to do that.

This could be a good time to implement option c). Aerolíneas Argentinas has a 65% of the domestic market (down from 75% in 2021). However, it is flying more passengers than ever because the air travel is skyrocketing. The other 2 main airlines (Flybondi and Jet Smart) grew more than Aerolíneas, but still only serving the high-demand destinations. In a time where the market is expanding it may be good to add competition and the other 2 airlines may show an interest in bidding for unprofitable cities.

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 9085
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby 3WE » Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:54 pm


On a serious note, Argentina is different than Flyover and Aerolíneas Argentinas is different than any airline in the USA.
I dunno, you might find the Teenie Weenie Airlines story interesting. Bankruptcy, not-so-generous corporate big shots, deregulation, freak gas tanks that didn’t explode, employee ownership, red arrows, East vs West Flyover politics.

I will consult www.internet.com and report back with links you cannot access.

For starters: WIKI.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_World_Airlines

Footnote: I recognize the situation is not_identical; however, business, unions, government management…I’m betting on a few things in common.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 4079
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby Gabriel » Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:34 pm

I dunno, you might find the Teenie Weenie Airlines story interesting. Bankruptcy, not-so-generous corporate big shots, deregulation, freak gas tanks that didn’t explode, employee ownership, red arrows, East vs West Flyover politics.

For starters: WIKI.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_World_Airlines

Footnote: I recognize the situation is not_identical; however, business, unions, government management…I’m betting on a few things in common.
You mean TWA was not about making money but had a social mission for which the government, which owned it, paid them millions of taxpayers' dollars per day?

(By the way, TWA's history is interesting indeed, but it was born and died as a private enterprise)

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 9085
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby 3WE » Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:22 am

Quote=Gabriel

“Contrast”
Quote=3BS

“Amtrak”

I would also cite EAS and Trans States.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 4079
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: The (not_) future of Aerolíneas Argentinas

Postby Gabriel » Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:42 pm

“Amtrak”
Ok, now we are talking, baby!

User avatar
3WE
Posts: 9085
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Flyover, America

Re: The (not_) future of Casa de Denero, Argentinas

Postby 3WE » Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:10 pm

To hell with Airlines, it looks like the Bank is closing down.

Footnote: I did further research and Google says “Banko”…. And to think, xenophobic Americans think you add o to-o everythingo ando youo areo speakingo Spanisho.
Commercial Pilot, Vandelay Industries, Inc., Plant Nutrient Division.

User avatar
elaw
Posts: 2607
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: The (not_) future of Casa de Denero, Argentinas

Postby elaw » Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:33 pm

Footnote: I did further research and Google says “Banko”…. And to think, xenophobic Americans think you add o to-o everythingo ando youo areo speakingo Spanisho.
Sío.

Not to be confused with Sia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vjPBrBU-TM
HR consultant, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc.

User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 4079
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: The (not_) future of Casa de Denero, Argentinas

Postby Gabriel » Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:53 pm

To hell with Airlines, it looks like the Bank is closing down.
Not all or any banko. Just the Banko Centralo (i.e. la Reserva Federala)

(Pro tip, in Spanish nouns and adjectives have gender. Add "o" to masculine ones and "a" to feminine ones and you will be correct about 2% of the time).

For example (within the 2%)
La luna blanca (the white moon)
El barco blanco (the white boat)
El perro Pluto (Pluto the dog)
La perra puta (the bitch bitch)

User avatar
ocelot
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:26 pm
Location: /bin/cat

Re: The (not_) future of Casa de Denero, Argentinas

Postby ocelot » Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:35 am

La luna blanca (the white moon)
...el programa maldito


Return to “Aviation Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests