Muslim Attire, Sitting separately, "if something happens"

[3WE]

AirTran apologizes for removing Muslim passengers

WASHINGTON – AirTran Airways apologized Friday to nine Muslims kicked off a New Year's Day flight to Florida after other passengers reported hearing a suspicious remark about airplane security. One of the passengers said the confusion started at Reagan National Airport just outside Washington, D.C., when he talked about the safest place to sit on an airplane.

Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran said in a statement that it refunded the passengers' air fare and planned to reimburse them for replacement tickets they bought on US Airways. AirTran also offered to take the passengers back to Washington free of charge.

"We apologize to all of the passengers — to the nine who had to undergo extensive interviews from the authorities and to the 95 who ultimately made the flight," the statement said. "Nobody on Flight 175 reached their destination on time on New Year's Day, and we regret it."

AirTran said the incident was a misunderstanding, but the steps taken were necessary.

Two U.S. Muslim advocacy groups, however, were critical of the airline's actions. The Muslim Public Affairs Council called on federal officials Friday to open an investigation. And the Council for American-Islamic Relations filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Transportation, saying "It is incumbent on any airline to ensure that members of the traveling public are not singled out or mistreated based on their perceived race, religion or national origin."

Bill Adams, a DOT spokesperson, said the department thoroughly investigates discrimination complaints but would not comment further.

One of the Muslim passengers, Atif Irfan, said the family probably would not fly home with AirTran because members had already booked tickets on another airline, but appreciated the apology.

"It's definitely nice to hear," he said.

Irfan said when he boarded the flight Thursday, he mentioned something to his wife and sister-in-law about having to sit in the back. His sister-in-law replied that she believed the back of the airplane was the safest, but Irfan believed it was better to be by the wings.

"She said, 'Yes, I guess it makes sense not to be close to the engine in case something happens,'" Irfan recalled Friday. "It was a very benign conversation."

Shortly after taking their seats, members of the group were approached by federal air marshals and taken off the plane, Irfan said. They stood in the jet bridge connected to the airport and answered questions while other passengers exited and glared at them.

Irfan said he thought he and the others were profiled because of their appearance. The men had beards and the women wore headscarves, traditional Muslim attire.

"My wife and I are generally very careful about what we say when we step on the plane," he said, adding that they have received suspicious looks in the past. "We're used to this sort of thing — but obviously not to this extent."

Irfan, 29, is a lawyer who lives in Alexandria, Va. He was traveling to a religious retreat in Florida with his wife, along with his brother and his family, including three children, ages 7, 4 and 2. They were joined by his brother's sister-in-law and a family friend.

Federal officials ordered the rest of the passengers from the plane and re-screened them before allowing the flight to depart about two hours behind schedule. The family and friend eventually made it to their destination on a US Airways flight.

Family members were upset that AirTran didn't allow them to book another flight. The airline said in a news release Friday that one of the passengers became irate, made inappropriate comments and had to be escorted away from a gate podium by local law enforcement.

"We felt very disrespected," Irfan said. He said FBI agents had cleared their names and asked AirTran to put them on another flight, but to no avail.

Christopher White, a federal Transportation Security Administration spokesman, said the security concern on the plane was handled appropriately.

White said the pilot, after being informed of the remarks, requested that two federal air marshals on board remove the nine passengers. TSA then alerted authorities, including the FBI, which conducted an investigation.

"Our role, basically, is to determine whether (those) in question pose a threat," FBI spokesman Bill Carter said.

He and White said that once authorities determined there was no security threat, it was up to the airline on how to proceed.

"If the pilot is uncomfortable with someone flying on their plane, that's their decision," White said.

Discount carrier AirTran Airways is a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings Inc. Its hub is in Atlanta.

___

Associated Press Writer Jennifer Kay in Miami contributed to this story.

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[Sir Gallivant]

If a person has any intention of bringing down an aircraft, does anyone think (s)he will be concerned with the safest seating of said aircraft??

[3WE]

If a person has any intention of bringing down an aircraft, does anyone think (s)he will be concerned with the safest seating of said aircraft??

-What the people SAID they said.

-What they ACTUALLY said (likely in an Arabic accent)

and

-What the people THINK they heard

Are likely to be three different things.

No conspiracies, nor do I suggest that they weren't discussing where the safest seats are, but throw in some background noise/a PA announcement, whatever and you have CLASSIC, "old fashioned" communication issues.

Sorry to be an ignorant red-neck American, but Arabic-appearing folks, sitting in separate places talking about "something happening" fits the profile of some very infamous folks.

It sounds like:

-The authorities conducted a civil questioning
-Folks got to where they were going
-AirTran lost two customers and must manage the PR debacle of being politically incorrect.

Since 9/11, that's about as good as it's going to get.

[3WE]

Website hung....double post

[Sir Gallivant]

The sad thing is that I think you are right. Add to the whole mess that some people are scared of flying in the first place and will not need much of a nudge to see spooks all around them.

[David Hilditch]

....-What they ACTUALLY said (likely in an Arabic accent)......

They were all American born United States citizens. Is it likely they'd be speaking in an "Arabic accent", whatever that is ?

[3WE]

....-What they ACTUALLY said (likely in an Arabic accent)......

They were all American born United States citizens. Is it likely they'd be speaking in an "Arabic accent", whatever that is ?

Yes it is likely.

White Anglo Saxons born in the rural Southern US are likely to speak with a Southern accent.

American-born people of Hispanic lineage are likely to have Hispanic accents.

American-born people of Oriental lineage.........

Intra-family bonds, child-raising and religion are strong forces that can keep cultural norms like native languages (let alone an accent) going through generations.

It's fairly likely that Muslims, devout enough to be wearing traditional garb, will have a traditional accent.

You ask "whatever an Arabic accent is". I doubt I can define what an "Arabic Accent" is, but there's no question that I have an outsider accent when I try to speak other languages, so please don't pretend that there is no such thing as cultural accents or imply that it's a hate crime to mention that it can complicate communication.

[Half Bottle]

3WE, you'll be happy to know that I heard one of the men interviewed on the news: no accent (or if he had one, it may have been slightly British). He spoke more plainly and clearly than you write and was about as scary as my three-year old in Elmo pajamas.

[AndyToop]

If a person has any intention of bringing down an aircraft, does anyone think (s)he will be concerned with the safest seating of said aircraft??

-What the people SAID they said.

-What they ACTUALLY said (likely in ill considered hypotheticals)

and

-What the people THINK they read

Are likely to be three different things.

No conspiracies, nor do I suggest that they weren't discussing where the safest seats are, but throw in some background noise/a PA announcement, whatever and you have CLASSIC, "old fashioned" communication issues.

Sorry to be an ignorant red-neck American, but ....

up to there we could be talking about turning downwind

[rattler]

-snip-
White Anglo Saxons born in the rural Southern US are likely to speak with a Southern accent.

American-born people of Hispanic lineage are likely to have Hispanic accents.

American-born people of Oriental lineage.........

Intra-family bonds, child-raising and religion are strong forces that can keep cultural norms like native languages (let alone an accent) going through generations.

It's fairly likely that Muslims, devout enough to be wearing traditional garb, will have a traditional accent.

You ask "whatever an Arabic accent is". I doubt I can define what an "Arabic Accent" is, but there's no question that I have an outsider accent when I try to speak other languages, so please don't pretend that there is no such thing as cultural accents or imply that it's a hate crime to mention that it can complicate communication.

This indeed is a grave oversight of authorities after 9/11, we definitely need the obligatory accent check at airports!

A list needs to be published urgently and passed on to the other nations that follow the US security measures explaining which bearers of what accents (and in which language) in combination with certain outfits will have to be scrutinized in-deep before allowed to board a plane....

For US Americans this has already been automatized: http://www.speechcom.com/training/accentcheck.html

Rattler

[Putt4Par]

Two U.S. Muslim advocacy groups, however, were critical of the airline's actions. The Muslim Public Affairs Council called on federal officials Friday to open an investigation. And the Council for American-Islamic Relations filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Transportation, saying "It is incumbent on any airline to ensure that members of the traveling public are not singled out or mistreated based on their perceived race, religion or national origin."

I am tired of this "political correctness" b.s. Instead of wasting their time calling federal officials to open an investigation, that Muslim Public Affairs Council should open an investigation as to why Muslims are blowing themselves up all over the world in the name of Allah, considering Islam is a
religion of "peace", as they say. And as far as Arabs being "singled out" when they board airplanes and make suspicious comments...well, sorry. I don't see any Mexican Catholics, or Utah Mormons, or Chinese Buddhists hijacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings, or blowing themselves up in the name of their god.

[Ancient Mariner]

Two U.S. Muslim advocacy groups, however, were critical of the airline's actions. The Muslim Public Affairs Council called on federal officials Friday to open an investigation. And the Council for American-Islamic Relations filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Transportation, saying "It is incumbent on any airline to ensure that members of the traveling public are not singled out or mistreated based on their perceived race, religion or national origin."

I am tired of this "political correctness" b.s. Instead of wasting their time calling federal officials to open an investigation, that Muslim Public Affairs Council should open an investigation as to why Muslims are blowing themselves up all over the world in the name of Allah, considering Islam is a
religion of "peace", as they say. And as far as Arabs being "singled out" when they board airplanes and make suspicious comments...well, sorry. I don't see any Mexican Catholics, or Utah Mormons, or Chinese Buddhists hijacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings, or blowing themselves up in the name of their god.

And while they're at it, why don't they investigate why Americans are getting themselves killed all over the place. Also, why do you believe that everything is related to religion?
Per

[David Hilditch]

....and make suspicious comments...well, sorry.

Ah, but was it just the comments themselves ? Wasn't it the "traditional accents" and the "traditional garb" ?

[Putt4Par]

And while they're at it, why don't they investigate why Americans are getting themselves killed all over the place.

Huh? Anyway....big difference between "getting themselves killed" and "killing".

Also, why do you believe that everything is related to religion?

Maybe because the distrust that precipitated this event was based on the fears created after the 9/11 "incident", which was, for the most part,
religious: revenge against the U.S. for its military presence in their holy land, disgust with America's liberal way of life, etc...

[Putt4Par]

....and make suspicious comments...well, sorry.

Ah, but was it just the comments themselves ? Wasn't it the "traditional accents" and the "traditional garb" ?

Not sure, but I commend AirTran and the FBI for putting the airplane's safety first and forgetting about political correctness. We are probably the
only country in the world that pays so much attention to political correctness in these situations. Most countries couldn't care less about who they
"offend". It seems that the U.S. went from policies like segregation and incarceration of Japanese/Americans during the war to the complete opposite, to the point where it is ridiculous. I think a happy medium is the best policy. A happy medium where you do things that make sense.

[David Hilditch]

....and make suspicious comments...well, sorry.

Ah, but was it just the comments themselves ? Wasn't it the "traditional accents" and the "traditional garb" ?

Not sure, but I commend AirTran and the FBI for putting the airplane's safety first and forgetting about political correctness. We are probably the
only country in the world that pays so much attention to political correctness in these situations. Most countries couldn't care less about who they
"offend". It seems that the U.S. went from policies like segregation and incarceration of Japanese/Americans during the war to the complete opposite, to the point where it is ridiculous. I think a happy medium is the best policy. A happy medium where you do things that make sense.

Well, I was having a gentle dig at some of the nonsense written above by 3WE. It's fairly clear that these people, or at least some of them, spoke no differently than you or him. These were American born individuals, and in the majority of cases people of second generation (much more, say, than in Europe) are more than ready to assimilate, accept the host culture, language, manner of speaking etc. In my work and time in the US most native-born Muslims that I have been in contact with are indistinguishable by their mode of speech from the wider population.

Anyway, you and he betray the usual xenophobia and isolation of many of your countrymen. It seems possible to me that he at least is confusing Muslim with Arab, something amazingly which remains very common. And if you think the US is the most politically correct society on earth, you have had a very narrow exposure to the rest of the world. While it's true that multiculturalism is somewhat in retreat in Europe, you clearly don't know Europe.

Oh, and I doubt that those Muslims rounded up and interned without trial in the wake of 9/11 would consider that the complete opposite of the Japanese-
American experience. I am not saying we were wrong post-9/11, just merely saying that we still employ the same methods when it suits us, so same old same old, n'est-ce pas, habibi ? I doubt Obama will be much different.

[Ancient Mariner]

And while they're at it, why don't they investigate why Americans are getting themselves killed all over the place.

Huh? Anyway....big difference between "getting themselves killed" and "killing".

Also, why do you believe that everything is related to religion?

Maybe because the distrust that precipitated this event was based on the fears created after the 9/11 "incident", which was, for the most part,
religious: revenge against the U.S. for its military presence in their holy land, disgust with America's liberal way of life, etc...

"Blowing themselves up" "Getting theselves blown up" Not much difference, same result and always in accordance with their "leaders" beliefs.

Terrorism didn't start on September 11. Shocking, but true and it does not even have to be related to religions.
Per

[Pipe]

Spare the time of profiling: I suggest a .............. half-moon sticker on their jackets.

Uhm, wait ...

Pipe

[Putt4Par]

"Blowing themselves up" "Getting theselves blown up" Not much difference, same result and always in accordance with their "leaders" beliefs.

Terrorism didn't start on September 11. Shocking, but true and it does not even have to be related to religions.
Per

So let me get this straight, Per. According to you U.S. soldiers are equivalent to Muslim terrorists. Is that what you are saying?

And please don't offend my intelligence: terrorism obviously didn't start on 9/11. And yes, I am aware that it is not always related to religio, although religion is accountable for many atrocities in history books. In this particular case, though, what prompted some passangers to report
these people's actions (whatever they were) was based on the fears created after 9/11 which were, for the most part, religion-motivated. That is my point.

[Putt4Par]

Anyway, you and he betray the usual xenophobia and isolation of many of your countrymen. It seems possible to me that he at least is confusing Muslim with Arab, something amazingly which remains very common.

I don't fear Arabs nor Muslims. I fear radical Muslims.....and many of them are white. Although I still question if the majority of Muslims are as
peaceful as they portray themselves. A very good friend of mine (a white lady from California) became Muslim years ago and she claims she is against terrorism and she is all for peace, but when you start discussing the western world, politics, etc...she gets really winded and passionate. And she is not siding with the U.S. She says she condemns terrorism but you can tell she has the "if it happens, let it happen" attitude.

And if you think the US is the most politically correct society on earth, you have had a very narrow exposure to the rest of the world. While it's true that multiculturalism is somewhat in retreat in Europe, you clearly don't know Europe

.

I haven't lived in Europe so yes, I am sure your information is more accurate. I have lived in South America and political correctness doesn' t exist there.

[Ancient Mariner]

"Blowing themselves up" "Getting theselves blown up" Not much difference, same result and always in accordance with their "leaders" beliefs.

Terrorism didn't start on September 11. Shocking, but true and it does not even have to be related to religions.
Per

So let me get this straight, Per. According to you U.S. soldiers are equivalent to Muslim terrorists. Is that what you are saying?

And please don't offend my intelligence: terrorism obviously didn't start on 9/11. And yes, I am aware that it is not always related to religio, although religion is accountable for many atrocities in history books. In this particular case, though, what prompted some passangers to report
these people's actions (whatever they were) was based on the fears created after 9/11 which were, for the most part, religion-motivated. That is my point.

When people kill I don't give a shit about their colour, nationality, faith, cause, sex, uniform and "who gave the order", unless they are defending their country from agressors. Neither party fits my template.
Per

[Sickbag]

So let me get this straight, Per. According to you U.S. soldiers are equivalent to Muslim terrorists. Is that what you are saying?

Of course they f***ing are,except they are much more efficent at killing people.
When will you people wipe the bullshit from your eyes?

[Putt4Par]

Of course they f***ing are,except they are much more efficent at killing people.
When will you people wipe the bullshit from your eyes?

OK, if that's what you believe, then what you believe.

[Putt4Par]

When people kill I don't give a shit about their colour, nationality, faith, cause, sex, uniform and "who gave the order", unless they are defending their country from agressors. Neither party fits my template.
Per

OK, then you agree that what happened on 9/11 was wrong and that U.S. federal agents have the right to take some people off an airplane if they suspect them to be terrorists, right? So why are you arguing with me.

[flyboy2548m]

So why are you arguing with me.

Because he's holed up in some log cabin with precious little to do?