FO Freezes. Outsider Ass-hat Pontification

[3WE]

Mentour's Somewhat long-winded report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAtcrdJqJDc

3BS Discussion:

I found this interesting, and for some reason, feel like Evan and want to throw the crew under the bus for crummy attention to fundamentals/procedures/whatever…

Ok, three or four oh-phugoid moments, some of the warnings were “big things”, but others, just typical warnings that have nothing to do with a perfectly OK aeroplanie.

BUT, the guys were in VMC and spent four minutes wallowing all over in terms of altitude and airspeed.

That’s my big objection: Four minutes of the plane having big altitude and speed excursions. I would IDEALLY expect the Captain to take over, look at speed and attitude and altitude and kinda fly pretty darn close to the assigned altitude (obviously after a minute of correction). But perhaps that is too much to ask from a sudden call for hand flight?

I question whether that particular FO should be in a cockpit. After years of pontificating and considering bicycle crashes, I think I might also be capable of “vapor locking” like the FO (see footnote). Conversely, isn’t the missed approach procedure depicted by a somewhat intuitive “text” code, as well as a big magenta line? And again, we are in VMC conditions.

And the dude pulled the spoilers…he really whacked out…and not_the same as “help, I’m overloaded”.

And (repeating) after the captain took over, he seemed distracted by the warnings and spoilers and was flying a video game and not an airplane Yes, this is a hidden slam on Air Bus operations. TOGA power…then the Air Bus automatically retracted the spoilers for him causing him to over zoom…But I feel he should have been a little more look out the window and instruments and fly the GD aeroplanie like you “always” do.

Footnote: After years of pontificating, I often think it’s best I stuck with Ag instead of commercial aviation…I love the non-linear beauty of landing an aeroplanie, but to keep all of the switches and procedures and fix names straight (and the DH)…It probably takes a particular person AND training.

[ocelot]

On the one hand, probably that could happen to anyone (shutting down due to overload). On the other hand, in this and some of the other recent similar incidents I really start to wonder about expectations. Climbing and turning at the same time while hand-flying is a high workload? How do you lose track of your altitude and/or airspeed when it's right in front of you? Do people not notice the sound of the engines changing when the autothrottle gets frisky?

I don't like to talk smack about these things because I have 0 experience in a real cockpit and there's definitely less pressure when you can't did_died by screwing up; but on the other hand sometimes it seems like standards must be exceedingly low.

[3WE]

1. I don't like to talk smack about these things because I have 0 experience in a real cockpit and there's definitely less pressure when you can't did_died by screwing up; but

2. on the other hand sometimes it seems like standards must be exceedingly low.

1. Concur with the caveat, as you said “Geemanitly, go to this heading and altitude using airplane’s controls sure SEEMS basic.

2. My other suspicion (we have no business making) is you have a mind FULL of 10 million great procedures, and a STRONG focus on doing everything exactly right, AND EXACTLY THE SAME.

3. All this great stuff becomes clutter and/or tunnel vision…trees that get in the way of the forest… when a booger hits the fan.

I do believe that some persons are better than others at mentally handling aircraft tasks…conversely we are regularly reminded that we are humans and screw up…even when we do have skillz.

[ocelot]

2. My other suspicion (we have no business making) is you have a mind FULL of 10 million great procedures, and a STRONG focus on doing everything exactly right, AND EXACTLY THE SAME.

3. All this great stuff becomes clutter and/or tunnel vision…trees that get in the way of the forest… when a booger hits the fan.

That's a good point. Ultimately in any situation you need to form some kind of plan for what you're going to do, whether consciously or not, and if your training is too much recipe-based your ability to react to an unforeseen situation is probably compromised. For example, this and other incidents have pointed out that go-arounds are usually trained a certain way and consequently go-arounds from higher or lower altitudes are more likely to be fumbled. That makes sense as a human factors proposition, but from a flying perspective makes no sense to me -- you increase the power and transition to a climb, and that's the same thing regardless of where you start from, with only the one proviso that pulling_up too hard at very low altitude might buy you a tailstrike. And then, it seems obvious that flying the plane in this is the priority and if you're nearing task saturation stuff like raising the gear can wait. The latter though is a planning function, and one of the things I've noticed over the years is that people vary widely, really widely, in their ability to prioritize tasks and shed load under stress. (Beyond that, it too is at least to some extent something that can be practiced and trained, and I'm not sure typical pilot training does a good job of this.)

[3WE]

1. ***from a flying perspective makes no sense to me -- you increase the power and transition to a climb, and that's the same thing regardless of where you start from***

2. ***one of the things I've noticed over the years is that people vary widely, really widely, in their ability to prioritize tasks and shed load under stress.***

1. Yes. A major point…In fact, the FO did initiate a perfectly good go-around, but vapor locked on leveling off…Then the captain was up and down and fast and slow FOR minutes like a student pilot. Of course, the FO AND THE AIR BUS AUTOMATION was helping him by deploying/retracting spoilers…but, you know, monitor speed, attitude, altitude and wiggle control thingies, as needed.

2. During my instrument training, reading an approach plate and keeping a no-autopilot 172 NAILED on altitude and heading was task saturation…comm frequencies, navigation frequencies, headings, altitudes, fix names, missed approach headings, altitudes, nav frequencies…

Yeah, the plane was upright, but heading and altitudes drifted…and most of the approach-briefing was NOT_plugged into my brain…better to figure out spray and fertilizer math, and regurgitate cropping details on at 5 MPH on the tractor…

[ocelot]

Task saturation is a completely different thing when you're still learning the procedures and circumstances.

(For example, for someone just learning to drive, just driving on a freeway in light traffic tends to approach task saturation. Montreal or Toronto or New York rush hour just isn't on. But most people exposed to that environment become used to it pretty quickly.)

[3WE]

… most people exposed to that environment become used to it pretty quickly.)

Some better than others