Dan Juan, August 2022

[3WE]

https://youtu.be/R8ZcdyuSvGA

I recall hearing the headline of this midair, but Juan adds some Interesting tidbits:

1. The aeroplanies we’re having OK communication and even some visual contact.

2. Classic case of HP aeroplanies don’t need no
Stinkin patterns…(no proposals for reform, just citing trends).

3. Insidious Swiss cheese / Cowboy-monkey idiocy: The twin does seem fast

4. Missing: It ALMOST sounds like the twin “landed”…I’m thinking that isn’t exactly what happened, but a strange and fateful crash and long slide fb hangering too fast.

[elaw]

I saw that one as well as the Air Safety Institute's one (https://youtu.be/1MwccgpwP-o).

The thing that really puzzles me is WTF the 340 was doing going so fast. It seems like if the accident hadn't happened, he would have crossed the fence faster than a jet normally would! Unless he was planning on doing something crazy like putting the props into reverse at the last minute, I don't know how he planned to pull off a proper landing (or any landing) at that speed.

[3WE]

***The thing that really puzzles me is WTF the 340 was doing going so fast.***how he planned to pull off a proper landing (or any landing) at that speed.

One of my favorite MSFS activities was hot approaches, and dissipating speed and landing…and while I want flyboy and Dummy to follow Evan’s stabilized approach requirement, there’s something to be said for Ocelot’s desire and ITS’ skill to scream in, execute a genius slow down and land without hurting brakes, tires or far-end lighting…

That being said, the 340 seemed REALLY fast on a REALLY short final…yeah, reckless. Could he have landed and stopped…maybe, but I’d be scared…

As to why? Biological emergency? The desire to play Jetpilot?

FWIW, he was violating AIM recommendations for speed.

I would also pontificate that he probably should have been able to see the 152 much sooner…but that cheese layer must have aligned.

[elaw]

***The thing that really puzzles me is WTF the 340 was doing going so fast.***how he planned to pull off a proper landing (or any landing) at that speed.

One of my favorite MSFS activities was hot approaches, and dissipating speed and landing…and while I want flyboy and Dummy to follow Evan’s stabilized approach requirement, there’s something to be said for Ocelot’s desire and ITS’ skill to scream in, execute a genius slow down and land without hurting brakes, tires or far-end lighting…

That being said, the 340 seemed REALLY fast on a REALLY short final…yeah, reckless. Could he have landed and stopped…maybe, but I’d be scared…

As to why? Biological emergency? The desire to play Jetpilot?

FWIW, he was violating AIM recommendations for speed.

I would also pontificate that he probably should have been able to see the 152 much sooner…but that cheese layer must have aligned.

Heh... I used to play a (very not_realistic) game called "F15 Strike Eagle" wherein I'd fly at about 20K feet (don't recall speed) then about 5 miles out from the runway cut throttle, drop gear, deploy speedbrakes, point the airplane straight downward, then proceed to land. With practice I could get it stopped on the runway almost 100% of the time but as I said, the game's realism was... not much.

Re "why", I almost wonder if there could be some kind of medical issue... seizure, stroke, hypoxia (unlikely I know at that altitude), CO poisoning? Unless the actual speed is way off from what was reported, I just can't see him getting the airplane down & stopped on the not_10000_feet_long runway approaching at that speed.

[3WE]

***Unless the actual speed is way off from what was reported***

Yeah, I’m not sure we know…lots of indications he was pretty damn fast, but if he chopped the power 1 mile out, maybe he slowed from ludicrous speed to rather fast?

[flyboy2548m]

The second I saw that toolbox with his stripes still on, I quit listening. Especially when he made sure to mention that he just came in from London.

[3WE]

Especially when he made sure to mention that he just came in from London.

That was, indeed, a key part of the message.

[flyboy2548m]

A hotel room is apparently an "affiliate office".

[elaw]

Unless you work for an arborist, in which case it's a "branch office".

[flyboy2548m]

I was also expecting to see a somewhat greater quantity of stripes, given how much he loves the sound of his own voice.

[3WE]

A hotel room is apparently an "affiliate office".

…stripes…

You need your own YouTube channel. You can record preliminary crash analysis movies in hotel rooms just like Kelsey and Juan. It would be hilarious if you were your former, slightly-harsher self, and told us outsiders to stick it. “flyboy’s Phugoid Channel: Cutting, brief and genius air-crash investigations.” Unlike Dan, you can really scoop the NTSB, and offer a line of easy-doffing Pilot clothing! And sell it to outsider ass hats, too!

[flyboy2548m]

A hotel room is apparently an "affiliate office".

…stripes…

You need your own YouTube channel. You can record preliminary crash analysis movies in hotel rooms just like Kelsey and Juan. It would be hilarious if you were your former, slightly-harsher self, and told us outsiders to stick it. “flyboy’s Phugoid Channel: Cutting, brief and genius air-crash investigations.” Unlike Dan, you can really scoop the NTSB, and offer a line of easy-doffing Pilot clothing! And sell it to outsider ass hats, too!

No, thanks. BTW, I don't think Juan is his first name. The only Juan Brown in the FAA database has no current certificate.

[Not_Karl]

I was also expecting to see a somewhat greater quantity of stripes...

Like we now have there?


(but 3WEie Not_so much )

[ocelot]

According to the ADS-B data (which is nicely plotted in the second link) the 340 held 180 kts groundspeed basically the whole way in, as if he was using that as the approach speed. This is ... puzzling. Granted nobody seems to have checked the weather report to figure out what airspeed this corresponds to, but given that somebody was operating a 152 it can't have been all that much less than 180. I wouldn't be surprised if the root cause turned out to be that his airspeed indicator was bust, he thought he was operating at a reasonable speed, and for some reason the rapid progress over ground towards the airport didn't raise any concerns.

I am, however, a bit surprised he apparently didn't see the 152 and apparently wasn't worried about this. It's all very well to be a low-wing plane but that doesn't prevent you from seeing slower traffic in front and below, at least until it passes under the nose. If he thought he was operating at a normal speed, that might explain not being worried.

Note that if he'd been planning to do a military-style overhead pattern he'd have been higher and would therefore have been unlikely to actually run into the 152, even though the 152 apparently started to go around. And he should have said so. It will be interesting to see if he had the gear down (and was overspeeding it) or not.

[Gabriel]

the 340 held 180 kts groundspeed basically the whole way in, as if he was using that as the approach speed

Yes, that's too much for an A340