Muslim Attire, Sitting separately, "if something happens"

[Ancient Mariner]

So why are you arguing with me.

Because he's holed up in some log cabin with precious little to do?

Nope, returned on Sunday. Please read my posts, you might find out just what my argument was. You didn't really expect me to stay on topic?
Per

[flyboy2548m]

Please read my posts...

No, thanks.

[Ancient Mariner]

Please read my posts...

No, thanks.

You're welcome, but my suggestion was more directed at puttie-par.
Per

[Putt4Par]

So why are you arguing with me.

Because he's holed up in some log cabin with precious little to do?

[Putt4Par]

Please read my posts...

No, thanks.

You're welcome, but my suggestion was more directed at puttie-par.
Per

OK, I'll go through your circular argument one more time:

We were discussing those Arabs getting booted from the airplane. You seemed to disagree because U.S. soliders are killing people all over the world (???).
In other words, you found an opportunity to bash the U.S. and went for it. If you want to discuss U.S. soldiers killing people, that is another topic. This thread is about Airtran and those passangers.

You said that you are really against people killilng people, period. The actions by Airtran and those federal agents are founded on basic distrust and concern when people (especially Arabs) act suspiciously in an airplane. And that fear has most of its roots in 9/11, an event where innocent people were killed....something you despise.

So, in theory, you should agree with the actions of AirTran and with my original comments.

Damn, I would be a great lawyer!

[Ancient Mariner]

PfP

I am tired of this "political correctness" b.s. Instead of wasting their time calling federal officials to open an investigation, that Muslim Public Affairs Council should open an investigation as to why Muslims are blowing themselves up all over the world in the name of Allah, considering Islam is a
religion of "peace", as they say.

Per

And while they're at it, why don't they investigate why Americans are getting themselves killed all over the place.

PfP

And as far as Arabs being "singled out" when they board airplanes and make suspicious comments...well, sorry. I don't see any Mexican Catholics, or Utah Mormons, or Chinese Buddhists hijacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings, or blowing themselves up in the name of their god

Per

Also, why do you believe that everything is related to religion?

Sorry, PfP you'll make a lousy lawyer.
Per

[Putt4Par]

Sorry Per, I don't get your point or why you quoted those statements (made by you and I). It seems that you love arguing in circles and bashing the U.S. so for all I care, go ahead. I don't have the time to decipher your reasoning or entertain you.

[Ancient Mariner]

Sorry Per, I don't get your point or why you quoted those statements (made by you and I). It seems that you love arguing in circles and bashing the U.S. so for all I care, go ahead. I don't have the time to decipher your reasoning or entertain you.

That's fair. Seems to me that there's no need for me to "bash" Americans. If I may say so they do a perfectly good job at it themselves.
Per
Just to prove my point: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090106/ts ... 0106002219

Absolutely amazingly hilarious, America bashing...........................moi? Whatfore?

[3WE]

Obviously, several folks were wrong in thinking that these folks were a threat.

And, before 9/11 the USA had a bad terrorist incident in Oklahoma masterminded by a European-descended caucasion military veteran.

Now, to quote some one-liners- the terrorist only has to be right once, and the security folks must be right all the time (that's right at preventing attacks, but NOT right at choosing when to ask some extra questions).

The 9/11 terrorists were of Middle-Eastern ethnicity and sat separately on the planes. An agent remembers that she felt it strange that they set separately.

Today, the new rule of thumb is if you see something strange, speak up and investigate it.

Was there some prejudice and profiling going on here?- Hell yes.

Was it ignorant, red-neck, xenophobia? I don't think so.

Did Putt 4 Par or Me report them to the flight crew? No, we had nothing to do with it.

Did Putt 4 Par or Me say that only Middle-Easterners should get the full search and pat down, or questioned if they act strangely. No!

One might argue that Granny searches are a waste of time, but terrorists come in all colors, sexes and ages, so please keep pulling me and Putt-4-Parr out for the random searches- I don't know if I trust him.

[Putt4Par]

Did Putt 4 Par or Me say that only Middle-Easterners should get the full search and pat down, or questioned if they act strangely. No!

One might argue that Granny searches are a waste of time, but terrorists come in all colors, sexes and ages, so please keep pulling me and Putt-4-Parr out for the random searches- I don't know if I trust him.

ANYBODY should be questions if acting strangely. I fly quite frequently and I know that airports, security lines, and airplanes are not the place to make jokes or look suspicious. And if I were a Middle Eastern man I would even be more careful. Racism? no. Simple fact.

I have been pulled for random searches a few times even when traveling with my family. Do I care? Not really. I actually appreciate it. I am not Middle Eastern but I am a male in my 30's and in the eyes of those agents I may fit the profile better than the lady with two small children next to me.

I think we all need to realize that airports are high security areas where we have to be extremely careful not to give the wrong impression, especially men, and especially Middle Eastern folks. I am fine with it. That's just the way it is and it makes me feel better when I fly. Those security people and FBI agents have a tough job and all it takes is for one terrorist to sneak through.

And Per: in your last post you say you "didn't need to bash the U.S." but then you went and did it again. When somebody is so subjective they lose credibility. One day you may have a good point about the U.S. but nobody will care to listen because we will all assume your opinion is heavely biased and many times unfounded.

[flyboy2548m]

And Per: in your last post you say you "didn't need to bash the U.S." but then you went and did it again. When somebody is so subjective they lose credibility. One day you may have a good point about the U.S. but nobody will care to listen because we will all assume your opinion is heavely biased and many times unfounded.

I suspect when ragheads start blowing up buildings in Oslo, Per will change his tune.

[Ancient Mariner]

And Per: in your last post you say you "didn't need to bash the U.S." but then you went and did it again. When somebody is so subjective they lose credibility. One day you may have a good point about the U.S. but nobody will care to listen because we will all assume your opinion is heavely biased and many times unfounded.

I did? I thought I posted a link to an article about someone getting a few 100,000 USD because of a tee-shirt he wore. If that is USA-bashing....................................you're good at it.
Per

[Ancient Mariner]

And Per: in your last post you say you "didn't need to bash the U.S." but then you went and did it again. When somebody is so subjective they lose credibility. One day you may have a good point about the U.S. but nobody will care to listen because we will all assume your opinion is heavely biased and many times unfounded.

I suspect when ragheads start blowing up buildings in Oslo, Per will change his tune.

Not really. I've said that if my country's territory is attacked, we should defend ourselves. I do not condone attacking random countries based on lies and lust for revenge.
Per

[OldSowBreath]

I do not condone attacking random countries based on lies and lust for revenge.
Per

Nothing random about it.

[flyboy2548m]

I do not condone attacking random countries based on lies and lust for revenge.
Per

Nothing random about it.

Concur. Random would be attacking Burkina-Faso.

[Ancient Mariner]

I do not condone attacking random countries based on lies and lust for revenge.
Per

Nothing random about it.

Concur. Random would be attacking Burkina-Faso.

They're up to 54 on the list, patience my friend.
Per

[OldSowBreath]

I'm not sure we haven't already. Here's their nation's White Hut and several Ouagadougoulites we apparently missed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Burki ... rtenga.jpg

[David Hilditch]

I do not condone attacking random countries based on lies and lust for revenge.
Per

Nothing random about it.

Concur. Random would be attacking Burkina-Faso.

Funny that actually, since the US already has small military counterinsurgency and counterterrorism forces in countries neighboring Burkina Faso, ie. Niger and Mali, though it has received zero publicity.

[rattler]

-snip- We were discussing those Arabs getting booted from the airplane.

Actually, we were discussing those US citizens - like you - booted from an US airplane. You know how the Nazi shit in my motherland started? By a devilish propoaganda machine convincing people that Jews were not German... (mixing a religion with a citizenship).

You seemed to disagree because U.S. soliders are killing people all over the world (???).
In other words, you found an opportunity to bash the U.S. and went for it. If you want to discuss U.S. soldiers killing people, that is another topic. This thread is about Airtran and those passangers.

Look, if I , as a German citizen, would be held up and searched for drugs because I wear long hair, have holes in my jeans, a "Peace" symbol sowed to my jackett, and havent had a shower for a few days (arrrgghh, that sounds familiar....), and if I later would complain if the search hadn´t showed the supposition of innocence towards me, I would not only in my right, it would be my *obligation* to do so (at least that is what I understand about democracy:

I, amongst others, elect people to represent me (and the others), they dont do it the way I thought they would or how their obligation to do it is spelled out in the constitution, well, then I will try and find where the concensus lies, no?)

If, at the same time that they bust me for drugs (being innocent), I find out that some part of my countries army is actually doing wholesale (Air America, rings a bell?) I have even more right to be annoyed and an *obligation* to voice it (dont know whether you realize, but this is meant to be a metaphor).

I have the gut feeling that most American citizens think just because the *elected* reps say what COA the state/nation as a whole has to take they have to succumb to living below constitutional standard, e.g. torture by state is fine if it serves the purpose to keep me safe, etc...

We in Europe believe in control after elections (by complaint, parliametary or ex-parliamentary, other methods would be one step close to terrorism or have crossed the line).

You said that you are really against people killilng people, period. The actions by Airtran and those federal agents are founded on basic distrust...

...where the constitution, a long time ago, has changed the rules: Basically , as a state - and with reason - you *have to trust*, else the citizens lose their room for perfectly innocent maneuvers, a lot of your forefathers have emigrated or died in order to get this perspective to be imposed...

...and concern when people (especially Arabs)...

...US Muslim citizens...

act suspiciously in an airplane. -snip- So, in theory, you should agree with the actions of AirTran and with my original comments.

Damn, I would be a great lawyer!

Ouch, lawyers - in theory - at least know the difference between theory and praxis, and they surely know the rules of discourse... Let me hear your definition of "suspiciously, in the above context if you find that easier.

Rattler

[flyboy2548m]

-snip- We were discussing those Arabs getting booted from the airplane.

Actually, we were discussing those US citizens - like you - booted from an US airplane. You know how the Nazi shit in my motherland started? By a devilish propoaganda machine convincing people that Jews were not German... (mixing a religion with a citizenship).

You seemed to disagree because U.S. soliders are killing people all over the world (???).
In other words, you found an opportunity to bash the U.S. and went for it. If you want to discuss U.S. soldiers killing people, that is another topic. This thread is about Airtran and those passangers.

Look, if I , as a German citizen, would be held up and searched for drugs because I wear long hair, have holes in my jeans, a "Peace" symbol sowed to my jackett, and havent had a shower for a few days (arrrgghh, that sounds familiar....), and if I later would complain if the search hadn´t showed the supposition of innocence towards me, I would not only in my right, it would be my *obligation* to do so (at least that is what I understand about democracy:

I, amongst others, elect people to represent me (and the others), they dont do it the way I thought they would or how their obligation to do it is spelled out in the constitution, well, then I will try and find where the concensus lies, no?)

If, at the same time that they bust me for drugs (being innocent), I find out that some part of my countries army is actually doing wholesale (Air America, rings a bell?) I have even more right to be annoyed and an *obligation* to voice it (dont know whether you realize, but this is meant to be a metaphor).

I have the gut feeling that most American citizens think just because the *elected* reps say what COA the state/nation as a whole has to take they have to succumb to living below constitutional standard, e.g. torture by state is fine if it serves the purpose to keep me safe, etc...

We in Europe believe in control after elections (by complaint, parliametary or ex-parliamentary, other methods would be one step close to terrorism or have crossed the line).

You said that you are really against people killilng people, period. The actions by Airtran and those federal agents are founded on basic distrust...

...where the constitution, a long time ago, has changed the rules: Basically , as a state - and with reason - you *have to trust*, else the citizens lose their room for perfectly innocent maneuvers, a lot of your forefathers have emigrated or died in order to get this perspective to be imposed...

...and concern when people (especially Arabs)...

...US Muslim citizens...

act suspiciously in an airplane. -snip- So, in theory, you should agree with the actions of AirTran and with my original comments.

Damn, I would be a great lawyer!

Ouch, lawyers - in theory - at least know the difference between theory and praxis, and they surely know the rules of discourse... Let me hear your definition of "suspiciously, in the above context if you find that easier.

Rattler

Rattler, you're rambling. Again.

[rattler]

-snip- Did Putt 4 Par or Me report them to the flight crew? No, we had nothing to do with it. -snip- )

No, actually it were some kids (11 and 14 yrs old) that commented thier "suspicions" to their parents, those to the steward, he to security, they to the captain, and then the captain decided to not want to have thm on their plane and called in FBI (process documented somewhere in The Guardian, cant find it right now).

This alone is basis for another thread that I will soon write (if I ever find the time), lets see whether you (PfP) figure what it is going to be based upon?

Rattler

[rattler]

-snip-

Rattler, you're rambling. Again.

I am angry, and with reason, *ranting* to defend *your* lifestyle. That is the same reason I went to the army for. So, next time at least do me the favor and -snip- me, I hate reading stuff twice, even if it is my own.

Rattler

[Sickbag]

Interesting fact that when the State wishes to control the population it often uses the children as agents of it power, as has happened in the fascist and communist countries, happens in Africa with the use of child soldiers, happen in the middle East with child suicide bombers...

[OldSowBreath]

Don't forget MTV and VH1.

[Putt4Par]

-snip- We were discussing those Arabs getting booted from the airplane.

Actually, we were discussing those US citizens - like you - booted from an US airplane. You know how the Nazi shit in my motherland started? By a devilish propoaganda machine convincing people that Jews were not German... (mixing a religion with a citizenship)....yada, yada, yada.....more rambling, yada, yada...

A German talking about human rights and fair treatment of foreigners. I never thought I would see the day.

Oh, sorry, yes, they were not foreigners. They were Arab-Americans.