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What is he watching that is not comforting?...you can see what the guy in the house on the hill is watching on TV. Not comforting.
Why, don't them aeroplany thingies have wings? Flap them.Yikes, even an extremely low speed overrun over the edge would mean certain death.
God the national media would have a field day with that, Fox News would be crying out for a bouncy castle to be placed at the end of the runway...
avweb linkFebruary 11, 2010
Rejected Takeoff Overrun Prompts Sterile Cockpit Concerns
By Glenn Pew, Contributing Editor, Video Editor
A Jan. 19 event that saw US Airways Express Flight 2495 abort its takeoff and run off the runway at Yeager Airport in Charleston, W. Va., has been linked to irrelevant cockpit chatter prior to the takeoff roll and an improper flap setting. None of the 34 people aboard the Bombardier CRJ-200ER were seriously injured though the aircraft suffered damage when it plowed into a crushable concrete safety area at the end of the runway. As the investigation continues, the events that appear to have transpired in the cockpit prior to the accident are raising concern among some safety officials, according to The Wall Street Journal. "Safety experts" are noting the incident among others to raise the specter of "lack of pilot professionalism" and a lax culture they feel may be becoming more apparent in the cockpit. Cockpit voice recordings from the time prior to takeoff reportedly contain "stretches of nonpertinent chatter" irrelevant to flight preparations, according to "officials familiar with the details." FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt recently met with a House aviation subcommittee and said the FAA is looking for ways to better transfer experience from seasoned pilots to younger greener commuter pilots. Said Babbitt, those kinds of programs would be an "important way to raise professional standards and improve cockpit discipline."
According to sources contacted by The Wall Street Journal, the Bombardier CRJ-200ER began its takeoff roll with the incorrect flap setting, accelerated and began to rotate before the crew realized the mistake. The pilots then quickly readjusted the flaps, which prompted "an automated cockpit warning to abandon takeoff," sources told the Journal. The crew then tried to stop the jet but failed to slow it sufficiently before reaching the runway overrun safety area.
Can I assume that both flaps 8 and flaps 20 are valid takeoff settings and neither would normally give a Takeoff Warning as long as you don't change them mid-roll?Ah yes, the dreaded flaps 8 instead of flaps 20 takeoff.
You are correct, except that I think in their haste they yanked the flaps all the way to 30 which would have triggered the warning. Moving them from 8 to 20 would not have done that.Can I assume that both flaps 8 and flaps 20 are valid takeoff settings and neither would normally give a Takeoff Warning as long as you don't change them mid-roll?Ah yes, the dreaded flaps 8 instead of flaps 20 takeoff.
Which is the more common setting? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that 20 would have been more apropriate here given the shorter runway?
What you are seeing more of, and it is bound to get worse, is a side effect of technology.
I see it with students, and there is no reason to believe the current generation of pilots is not immune to it; they think they can do everything: learn complicated engineering concepts, watch youtube videos, post to forums, download torrents, listen to their iPod and play with their iPhone all the while talking with the people to the left and right of them. What I see is a general decline in the quality of student and their knowledge base....in one way, they are able to fake out the system as they seem to be able to cram twice the amount of knowledge in....the reality is that it is all superficial, and a deeper probing of issues reveals how little they actually know (see just about any conversation here between ITS and ________ <- insert inane name here - stick and rudder and Hallicrafter wins, everytime). You will see more and more of this technology-errant behaviour in the future with high-consequence industry cohorts, such as pilots....having conversations, playing with their iPhone, checking their computerized work rosters on their laptops...AND trying to get the flap setting right.
Luckily, the Puppy Mill pilots will also have cockpit technology to keep them from crashing much of the time...as long as they turn their attention from the iPhone for a second.
Ed
I think what I was getting at is that it seems as though the frequency of sterile cockpit violations is on the rise (although I admit I have no data to support this...it is simply parlour talk - seems to be in the news a lot more these days though: these dudes, the dudes that overflew Minneapolis; the dudes that smacked into Buffalo....), and I attribute the violation of sterile cockpit with, in part, short attention spans that are creeping into the workforce.Good points, I guess, but I'm not sure what they have to do with this accident. We don't know if this was a younger crew (my guess is not likely, AW pilots traditionally run somewhat older), but even if it was, I don't see what thinking you're Einstein has to do with not setting flaps.
Nothing, really. Just a follow-up rant from a grumpy old man on Ed's post.Good points, I guess, but I'm not sure what they have to do with this accident. We don't know if this was a younger crew (my guess is not likely, AW pilots traditionally run somewhat older), but even if it was, I don't see what thinking you're Einstein has to do with not setting flaps.
I see. In my experience there is no shortage of vacuum-sucking older people out there either. You, for instance.Nothing, really. Just a follow-up rant from a grumpy old man on Ed's post.Good points, I guess, but I'm not sure what they have to do with this accident. We don't know if this was a younger crew (my guess is not likely, AW pilots traditionally run somewhat older), but even if it was, I don't see what thinking you're Einstein has to do with not setting flaps.
Per
I don't suck, I blow......off steam, if need be.I see. In my experience there is no shortage of vacuum-sucking older people out there either. You, for instance.Nothing, really. Just a follow-up rant from a grumpy old man on Ed's post.Good points, I guess, but I'm not sure what they have to do with this accident. We don't know if this was a younger crew (my guess is not likely, AW pilots traditionally run somewhat older), but even if it was, I don't see what thinking you're Einstein has to do with not setting flaps.
Per
I suppose the commercial pilots can give us the definition.What is the definition of "sterile cockpit" ?
Were Capt. Sully and FO Skiles in violation of that when they were talking about mergers, calling ops on cell phone, discussing view of the hudson ?
HOT-2 wonder how the Northwest and Delta pilots are
gettin on.
15:06:47
HOT-1 I wonder about that too, I have no idea.
15:07:01
CAM [sound similar to power interruption]
15:07:01
Correct. Recorded between pushback and before bird strike.[ would hazard a guess that it is from their crash into the Hudson).
If taxi technically involves movement, does this mean while you are moving is sterile, but with the parking brake on in the usual queue at LGA you're free to chat about the northwest delta merger?(b) No flight crewmember may engage in, nor may any pilot in command permit, any activity during a critical phase of flight which could distract any flight crewmember from the performance of his or her duties or which could interfere in any way with the proper conduct of those duties. Activities such as eating meals, engaging in nonessential conversations within the cockpit and nonessential communications between the cabin and cockpit crews, and reading publications not related to the proper conduct of the flight are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft.
(c) For the purposes of this section, critical phases of flight includes all ground operations involving taxi, takeoff and landing, and all other flight operations conducted below 10,000 feet, except cruise flight.
Note: Taxi is defined as "movement of an airplane under its own power on the surface of an airport."
It does.
If taxi technically involves movement, does this mean while you are moving is sterile, but with the parking brake on in the usual queue at LGA you're free to chat about the northwest delta merger?
I see you still do not fully appreciate the US approach to safety philosophy, else your sentence woud have probably sounded something like: "Fox News would be crying out for a bouncy castle to be placed at the end of every runway..."-snip-...Fox News would be crying out for a bouncy castle to be placed at the end of the runway...
You are almost there:I see you still do not fully appreciate the US approach to safety philosophy, else your sentence woud have probably sounded something like: "Fox News would be crying out for a bouncy castle to be placed at the end of every runway..."-snip-...Fox News would be crying out for a bouncy castle to be placed at the end of the runway...
Rattler
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